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Disgusted by shul trend of men sitting around kiddush table
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exaustedmom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 9:59 am
Can you have them set up a separate table for the women?
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:02 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
OP here, and this is correct. it's a family/community kiddush. there's only one buffet set up. there's always been mixed-gender seating at this shul. we're very OOT. it's always amusing when very in-town people on here literally can't fathom something like this and make assumptions that this kiddush was just for men.

by the way, my husband is also very clean/neat/organized and was just as horrified as I was.
Op if you are horrified, why not talk to the kiddush commity or whomever sets everything up? It really can be as simple as that.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:04 am
exaustedmom wrote:
Can you have them set up a separate table for the women?


it's not that kind of shul. and men like my husband are just as disgusted and grossed out by it as I am. surely some other men are too. I don't see any need to push to change the hashkafa of the shul when some of these guys can instead learn manners.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:08 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Op if you are horrified, why not talk to the kiddush commity or whomever sets everything up? It really can be as simple as that.


the problem is the rabbi and rebbitzen run everything at this shul. there is no lay leadership, no kiddush committee, etc. this setup means that anyone kvetching about little stuff like this has to bug the rabbi/rebbitzen, which makes it hard to do.

the rabbi and rebbitzen are very nice people, but they themselves aren't the best with things related to cleanliness and sanitation. I don't want to speak lashon hara about them by giving a bunch of examples, but there are other things in/around the shul that my husband and I find unsanitary or even disgusting.
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exaustedmom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:09 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
it's not that kind of shul. and men like my husband are just as disgusted and grossed out by it as I am. surely some other men are too. I don't see any need to push to change the hashkafa of the shul when some of these guys can instead learn manners.


It's not about hashkafa, but ladies have different sensitivities than most men...

Personally, my husband is grossed out to eat at a kiddush, where people double dip, take with their hands etc. This doesn't happen by the ladies.

Or, you can start giving classes on etiquette. Banging head
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:11 am
Instead of being gross and horrified, can you and your husband open or set up a table and put out plates, cups, drinks on it.
I don't think these men are trying to be rude. They want to have a nice relaxing Shabbos situation, so they will sit down and enjoy.
If another table would be set up, they can be encouraged to eat there.
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amother




Lightblue
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:23 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
the problem is the rabbi and rebbitzen run everything at this shul. there is no lay leadership, no kiddush committee, etc. this setup means that anyone kvetching about little stuff like this has to bug the rabbi/rebbitzen, which makes it hard to do.

the rabbi and rebbitzen are very nice people, but they themselves aren't the best with things related to cleanliness and sanitation. I don't want to speak lashon hara about them by giving a bunch of examples, but there are other things in/around the shul that my husband and I find unsanitary or even disgusting.


You can put it forward as unfair that the men sit themselves down and the women have nowhere to sit and the food is hard to access leaning over the men. Offer to help set up the tables.

If they still show no interest, that's it - skip the kiddush and leave it for those who aren't put off by it.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:26 am
amother [ Lightblue ] wrote:
You can put it forward as unfair that the men sit themselves down and the women have nowhere to sit and the food is hard to access leaning over the men. Offer to help set up the tables.

If they still show no interest, that's it - skip the kiddush and leave it for those who aren't put off by it.


this is a good idea for how to pitch it -- women having to lean on top of a bunch of men to get to the food. that'll appeal more to the rabbi than germs.
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amother




Aster
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 10:28 am
Yep- offer to help set up. And then set up a sitting table.
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amother




Lightpink
 

Post Wed, Oct 20 2021, 1:41 pm
No need to discuss it with anyone, just grab a folding table with your husband from the closet, pop it open, and tell those men that you set up a special spot just for them.

Simple.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 6:06 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
this is a good idea for how to pitch it -- women having to lean on top of a bunch of men to get to the food. that'll appeal more to the rabbi than germs.


That was my first thought. How on earth is this tzniyus?

See if you can get a couple of guys to agree to help you set up a few tables and bring in enough chairs for everyone.

Frame it as "You can't possibly be comfortable sitting at the buffet, with all those people on top of you. You'd really be able to relax if you had tables out."

Don't approach the rabbi as "This is wrong and gross." Frame it as "I'd like to help you make everyone happier, and make things more convenient."

If you really need to entice people to use the tables instead of the buffet, put small bowls of dips at each table, in addition to what's at the buffet. A large water pitcher and a stack of cups is good, too. That will make it glaringly obvious that tables are for sitting, and the buffet is for serving.

This also means that you (or DH, or both) have just volunteered to go around with a large waste bin after everyone leaves, and quickly toss the paper tablecloths and all the leftovers away. Cleanup only takes a few minutes.

BTDT!

BTW, is it the ladies who prepare the kiddush in your shul? If so, this is a great way to make friends. I'm always happiest when I'm in the kitchen, no matter where I am. If the ladies see you pitch in, they'll love you for it.
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amother




Blush
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 5:44 pm
The only problem I see is men sitting while women (presumably some disabled or pregnant) have to stand.

But I don't see why this is any more gross.than Shabat meals when all/much of the food is on the table and people are sitting around it.
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amother




Cadetblue
 

Post Thu, Oct 21 2021, 7:27 pm
Who’s paying for this kiddush? If you don’t contribute, maybe just skip it and go home instead.
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