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21 kids in one year
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amother




Bergamot
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 8:03 pm
So many children there need to be adopted. Shame she doesn't do thst.
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amother




Blushpink
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 8:04 pm
flowerpower wrote:
It’s very very very hard to do it. Only the sefardim hold that it’s ok. Woman has to be jewish but not married and many other factors.


"The Sephardim" is not a thing. It's a machlokes haposkim across the board, sephardi and Ashkenazi poskim alike. (I happen to know an Ashkenazi family that had some kind of halachik way to do it. I attended the bris and there were many community rabbanim present and participant.)
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amother




Blushpink
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 8:08 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I’m very confused here
I am in no way condoning what this lady is doing

But why is ok, for Yerushalmis to have 18 children they can’t support. Then they come to Lakewood and NY to collect charity. I am happy to give , but I resent being told over and over again that they are Kedusha itself. Whereas we are tumadik Americans. Our own saving grace is giving money to the Yerushalmis.

Lhavdil, this lady isn’t taking anything to support these children
In fact, they are probably supporting their country’s economy.
And we are all vilifying her.


Forget the yerushalamim, I can't speak about and answer for an entire sect of yiddishkeit....

But the reason people here are calling this evil has nothing to do with the monetary support of these kids.

It has to do with that fact that these kids aren't being held, hugged, and emotionally bonded with. They have no mother figure and no family structure. She's purposely set up a structure where the kids aren't even getting the same nanny regularly, and the nannies aren't allowed to personalized the care. That's evil. She created people only to deprive them of the very basics of love and nurture that they need.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 9:29 pm
I look at it this way. He’s rich, wanted someone young and lots of kids. He doesn’t want her pregnant, postpartum etc so surrogacy is the choice. She wants his money and wants him to have a reason to stay with her so she has tons of kids.
Also, she’s so young she thought it’s all fun and games to have many kids and not give birth to them. One day she’ll wake up and realize how crazy this is. Or she’s not mentally well and never will.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 9:54 pm
flowerpower wrote:
It’s very very very hard to do it. Only the sefardim hold that it’s ok. Woman has to be jewish but not married and many other factors.


I know Ashkenazi couples who have used surrogates.
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amother




Thistle
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 10:11 pm
What's terribly sad is that had she had the children spaced out, she possibly could have been a good mother for them.

Having kids is what molds us into better parents.

There is no shortcut for that. For waking up when we're tired, dealing with complaining and sickness and anger and misbehavior. We learn, we grow, we mellow, we become better people and better parents.

She is making all of the first-time mother mistakes... on 21 children at once.

I feel bad for her, and for them.

(And I think that comparisons to anyone with the same size family, but born over the course of 20+ years, are unfair.)
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amother




Navy
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 11:23 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I mean, we are born with millions and lowers to about 300,000 by the time puberty hits. And from there a few hundred can ovulate.
But if she is doing surrogacy, she is essentially doing an IVF cycle and they take out a few at a time, hopefully.


good point... why stop at 105... why not a few hundred? Banging head
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 11:30 pm
So messed up. Ewwwwww
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losingweight




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 1:10 am
She's all of 24 and making decisions for 21 babies plus a six year old??? So much is messed up here. Her "parenting method" is a setup for disaster! The kids don't know what love means. At all. (they weren't even conceived from love)
t
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 1:13 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
I know Ashkenazi couples who have used surrogates.


Who gave the heter? Im just curious.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 1:14 am
Should be fun in another 12-13 years when she has 21 teens living under her roof.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 1:48 am
watergirl wrote:
I took this to mean that they live in during their four days on.




Does anyone notice the child crying in the pic?
And her rule is no picking up a crying child! If this isn’t abuse, what is?
How is she allowed to do this just because she’s rich and famous? Where’s CPS When we need them?
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 2:16 am
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
It sounds like the nannies are all live in but get days off.

Many right wing Mormon men have that many children.

Not all at once.

Oh and if you read the article, it mentions they plan on having 84 more.
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 3:54 am
amother [ Bergamot ] wrote:
So many children there need to be adopted. Shame she doesn't do thst.


Were are all the kids that need to be adopted? The world as a whole has stopped having children, every year there are less and less kids up for adoption.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 4:57 am
amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:
I wonder what the halacha is about a surrogate. who is the halachic mother. I'm scared of childbirth and even pregnancy at my age, and having experienced infertility and having just a few frozen embryos left and getting older,

if it was halachically allowed and I would still be the mother and if I had the money for it, I might want to get a surrogate for a few babies and then some full time help to take care of them. but definitely not to the extreme of this article.
The halachic mother is the one who gave birth to the baby.
Its also extremely expensive. So unless you have a LOT of money at your disposal, this is not something people usually do for multiple children (as of my experience of the people I know.
I have a family member, here in Israel, who need to convert their child as it was born to a non jewish woman.
I also have heard of 3 separate frum women here that have been surrogates for other women.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 4:58 am
flowerpower wrote:
It’s very very very hard to do it. Only the sefardim hold that it’s ok. Woman has to be jewish but not married and many other factors.
This is simply not true. I know 3 married frum women here in Israel, that have been surrogates for other women.
It differs from rav to rav and most probably community to community.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 5:00 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
I’m very confused here
I am in no way condoning what this lady is doing

But why is ok, for Yerushalmis to have 18 children they can’t support. Then they come to Lakewood and NY to collect charity. I am happy to give , but I resent being told over and over again that they are Kedusha itself. Whereas we are tumadik Americans. Our own saving grace is giving money to the Yerushalmis.

Lhavdil, this lady isn’t taking anything to support these children
In fact, they are probably supporting their country’s economy.
And we are all vilifying her.
Who said it IS ok? Not everyone gives to such people who come begging.
But this story is not just about money. Its about parenting and being there for your children and so much more.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 7:30 am
I'm so curious if she had the same rules for her oldest in terms of not holding a crying child, measuring food to the gram, etc
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 8:46 am
People who follow her on social media are probably cheering her on and that's a problem. She probably loves the publicity more than she loves any of these kids. Someday, if she gives birth herself to more kids, there will be a real difference between surrogate children and birth children.
I see rivalry and self esteem issues coming and eventually there might be charges of cruelty and child abuse.
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amother




Currant
 

Post Thu, Oct 28 2021, 10:35 am
flowerpower wrote:
Who gave the heter? Im just curious.


Yes, I would also like to know.
Just because surrogacy is a new concept doesn't mean it's bad.

The torah is ever evolving and rabbonim nowadays can and should decide on these matters so that couples who need it should be able to utilize it.
We need brave rabbonim to investigate this.
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