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Naming after Grandfather with bad Middot?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 6:45 am
We are Sephardi, and we name after the living. Every sibling that is married with children on my husbands side, has a boy with my husbands fathers name.
I have thought about this plenty of times, but now that BH I am expecting a boy, I would like to know your thoughts.
Here is the dilemma:
Although his is not necessarily abusive, (but now that I am thinking more about it, it may fall under the category of verbal or even psychological abuse), my husbands father is just not a person that I would like my children to be named after. He is always putting people down, from his wife to his children to his relatives.. He never has a nice thing to say. My husband will be saying a beautiful Dvar Torah at their Shabbat table, and he will simply get up in the middle and say 'Let's Bentch, I'm tired'. He treats people as if they are below him, and holds himself on the highest level. He embarrasses and mistreats his wife in front of us... I can really go on and on, but you get the point.
I don't want to cause a rift in the family (like I said, everyone with a boy named him after my father-in-law) but I just can't imagine naming my son after someone with Middot like that.
What do you think?
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 6:50 am
We named after a grandmother esther but had in mind s Esther from purim just didn’t tell anyone can u name but have in mind someone else great with this name?
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amother




Apricot
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 6:50 am
What a tough situation. Its one thing not to name after someone who is dead, but it is another thing to insult someone who is alive. Can you add another name? Have in mind that you are not really naming after him, but after someone else with that name?
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amother




Holly
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 6:50 am
You name your child something you like, you have ruach hakodesh for your child's name. You don't need to name your child after anyone.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 7:01 am
Can you add a name? I am Askenazi, so I don’t know your minhagim, but can you add a name?
My grandma had dementia and we would add the name Bina.
My friend added Tova…… you get the idea.
You can always say to different from cousins. He may even be gyvadic enough to think the middah of chessed or tov is describing him!
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amother




Amber
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 7:03 am
The grandfather sounds like a narcissist. I would definitely not name after him even with "extra" name. Be prepared: he will have a tantrum.
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SG18




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 8:18 am
We're Sephardi and name after the living as well. We have a few family members who I will not be naming after, because they aren't the kind of people I want my children to emulate. Additionally, I don't think they deserve the added כבוד being named after bestows.
We didn't name our first after anyone- her name came to us.
That being said, we will name after other family members who we love and respect, if the name suits one of our children.
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amother




Bluebell
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 8:57 am
I'm not Syrian but work in the Syrian community. I think some posters aren't realizing that it's an absolute expectation. Adding a name is not an option, altering the name is not an option. First boy gets the paternal grandfather's name, second gets the maternal grandfather's name. (First and second girl follow the same order with grandmother's names) It would be a huge public scandal and humiliation not to do it.

I'm a different type of sephardi and we just choose our names. We can name after, for, or just choose...there's no pressure at all, and I'm usually very vehement that no one has a right to chime in on a baby's name. But OP is living in a tight knit community where it would be an absolute shock to everyone around of she chooses not to follow this custom. It's not quite the same thing as an Ashkenazi person choosing not to name for a grandfather, or choosing to name for the mother's side when it's "the father's sides turn".

I like the advice of giving the name but having someone else in mind.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 9:01 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
We are Sephardi, and we name after the living. Every sibling that is married with children on my husbands side, has a boy with my husbands fathers name.
I have thought about this plenty of times, but now that BH I am expecting a boy, I would like to know your thoughts.
Here is the dilemma:
Although his is not necessarily abusive, (but now that I am thinking more about it, it may fall under the category of verbal or even psychological abuse), my husbands father is just not a person that I would like my children to be named after. He is always putting people down, from his wife to his children to his relatives.. He never has a nice thing to say. My husband will be saying a beautiful Dvar Torah at their Shabbat table, and he will simply get up in the middle and say 'Let's Bentch, I'm tired'. He treats people as if they are below him, and holds himself on the highest level. He embarrasses and mistreats his wife in front of us... I can really go on and on, but you get the point.
I don't want to cause a rift in the family (like I said, everyone with a boy named him after my father-in-law) but I just can't imagine naming my son after someone with Middot like that.
What do you think?


We had a similar situation.
Our Rav told us to name the same name, but have in mind somene else, like a tzadik, that he is actually being named for.
BUT he stressed its very important that the person calling out the name by the bris be aware for who the baby is truly being named after
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amother




Holly
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 9:56 am
amother [ Bluebell ] wrote:
I'm not Syrian but work in the Syrian community. I think some posters aren't realizing that it's an absolute expectation. Adding a name is not an option, altering the name is not an option. First boy gets the paternal grandfather's name, second gets the maternal grandfather's name. (First and second girl follow the same order with grandmother's names) It would be a huge public scandal and humiliation not to do it.

I'm a different type of sephardi and we just choose our names. We can name after, for, or just choose...there's no pressure at all, and I'm usually very vehement that no one has a right to chime in on a baby's name. But OP is living in a tight knit community where it would be an absolute shock to everyone around of she chooses not to follow this custom. It's not quite the same thing as an Ashkenazi person choosing not to name for a grandfather, or choosing to name for the mother's side when it's "the father's sides turn".

I like the advice of giving the name but having someone else in mind.

Dh's family is Syrian and we chose the names for our kids even though there was an expectation to name after the grandparents, because we wanted new names. Some people don't understand, but at least my mil was understanding.
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amother




Phlox
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 10:32 am
There are different types of Sephardim, and even within the Syrian community there are different customs in different families, just like in every family and community. What makes me think OP is part of a community and family where naming after living grandparents is very important is that she came right out and told us, "Every sibling that is married with children on my husbands side, has a boy with my husbands fathers name".

Op, if there's a real expectation you'll give the name there's something else you need to consider. Giving a name is a special thing at an important time. The last thing you want is it should lead to anger or bad feelings in the family. I've also heard the advice of giving the name and having in mind someone else. If it's a biblical name like Avraham or Moshe that's easy. If it's not you might come up with a rabbi or good person you knew who had that name. It's your baby and you get to choose the name, but it's worth sacrificing a lot for the sake of shalom. It doesn't mean you're forced to give the name, just something to consider.
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Rutabaga




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 10:56 am
What does your husband want to do?
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 11:50 am
If you are in a family that does this and expects it, you will be starting a war to not do it. It is not worth it.

Either have in mind a previous grandfather who passed away with this name or the originals from tanach/ or the meaning when giving the name. Its your kavanah that makes it.
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amother




Hawthorn
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 12:33 pm
I have a different dilema.

DH grandparent passed away. Nobody has had a baby since and I really dislike the name and even though the grandparent was an exceptional person in regards to middos, they had other huge issues which held them back from living life normally and it was something they would have been able to work on.

I'm so worried, I really really don't want to use this name.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 12:41 pm
amother [ Hawthorn ] wrote:
I have a different dilema.

DH grandparent passed away. Nobody has had a baby since and I really dislike the name and even though the grandparent was an exceptional person in regards to middos, they had other huge issues which held them back from living life normally and it was something they would have been able to work on.

I'm so worried, I really really don't want to use this name.


Have similar issue. My husband's grandparent passed away. My fil doesn't have any kids that will name after them, besides my husband and his younger sister, because they're all older than us.
Grandparent had a lot of good parts to them but also had some mental illness that would cause them to hurt others. I don't love the name either. However, my fil is a wonderful person and I would love to do this for him, so I'm torn. Grandparent had 2 names so don't have the option of adding.
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amother




Mayflower
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 1:09 pm
Hugs. I named my son after a possible pedophile. I call him by the Yiddish version of the name. He’s the sweetest boy. So much tougher when the one being named after is still alive though.
Then again don’t sefardim only use names from tanach? That means whatever name it is it can be traced back to a tzaddik. Have in mind that you’re naming after the original bearer of the name, or another gadol who had that name.
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amother




Gold
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 1:25 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
We are Sephardi, and we name after the living. Every sibling that is married with children on my husbands side, has a boy with my husbands fathers name.
I have thought about this plenty of times, but now that BH I am expecting a boy, I would like to know your thoughts.
Here is the dilemma:
Although his is not necessarily abusive, (but now that I am thinking more about it, it may fall under the category of verbal or even psychological abuse), my husbands father is just not a person that I would like my children to be named after. He is always putting people down, from his wife to his children to his relatives.. He never has a nice thing to say. My husband will be saying a beautiful Dvar Torah at their Shabbat table, and he will simply get up in the middle and say 'Let's Bentch, I'm tired'. He treats people as if they are below him, and holds himself on the highest level. He embarrasses and mistreats his wife in front of us... I can really go on and on, but you get the point.
I don't want to cause a rift in the family (like I said, everyone with a boy named him after my father-in-law) but I just can't imagine naming my son after someone with Middot like that.
What do you think?

I also married into a Sephardi family where they name after the father. Unfortunately, my FIL is like yours and abusive too. My husband and I refuse to name after him (and so did another sibling), and we also won’t allow him to be sandek at any of our children’s brissim. My FIL doesn’t have good intentions with those kibbudim, he only wants the kibbudim for the clout and public display of honor.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 1:49 pm
amother [ Hawthorn ] wrote:
I have a different dilema.

DH grandparent passed away. Nobody has had a baby since and I really dislike the name and even though the grandparent was an exceptional person in regards to middos, they had other huge issues which held them back from living life normally and it was something they would have been able to work on.

I'm so worried, I really really don't want to use this name.


So add a name.
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newmom1987




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 3:19 pm
It’s not just his name, but his grandfathers name and his grandfathers grandfathers name. You’re naming for the family, not the individual.
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scruffy




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Oct 27 2021, 3:41 pm
amother [ Bluebell ] wrote:
I'm not Syrian but work in the Syrian community. I think some posters aren't realizing that it's an absolute expectation. Adding a name is not an option, altering the name is not an option. First boy gets the paternal grandfather's name, second gets the maternal grandfather's name. (First and second girl follow the same order with grandmother's names) It would be a huge public scandal and humiliation not to do it.


This. I had a Syrian neighbor. We went to the bris and they had name cookies out with the grandfather's name on it! It's just a given.
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