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naomi2
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 7:49 pm
Amother mulberry- you are anonymous. Why not share your very good reason for waiting a few days after you get an invitation to decide whether or not to take it. You don't have to defend yourself to your hosts but what do you have to lose here to explain when noone knows who you are.
And It does matter to me when people either don't answer or commit an invite. By Wednesday, the other people I would have invited to replace you, likely already have plans and then I might be left with very little or no company. Also, I feel bad because I assume they are waiting to see if something better is coming up. Or worse, If they would rather stay home alone than join us.
I'm just thinking maybe one of you has an illness that you may not be able to know until Wednesday if you will be functional at the end of the week?
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amother
Blushpink
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 7:57 pm
zaq wrote: | Because I have years and years of experience being at the receiving end of this, and my Momma didn't raise no fools. If it were once in a blue moon the dlkz would work, but it happens all. the. time. They will NEVER commit themselves earlier than Thursday night and often not till Friday morning.
BTW, my niece, who is an entire generation younger than I am, is equally disgusted by this behavior.
I have a theory about why certain singles have a hard time getting married: it's all of a piece with being terminally incapable of committing to a Shabbat meal invitation. It's FOMO. They have so many possibilities laid out before them that they become incapable of committing to just one. If I choose A I'll miss out on B-Z, if I accept Zaq's invite to Shabbat lunch this week, what'll happen if some new people to the shul make a really super potluck lunch and I'll have to miss it? Yeah, this guy/girl I went out with is very sweet, but why should I tie myself down to him/her when there are so many others out there who are better off, smarter, better looking, better dressed, more sophisticated, more talented, more upwardly mobile, etc.etc.etc. |
This is so sad.
Because there are so many people who are dealing with difficulties in their lives which do make it impossible to know until late in the week whether going out will work. An ill family member, a mentally ill family member, a stressful work situation which drains you of all energy by the end of the week….
There are so many people going through private difficulties which truly do make things so unpredictable even on a weekly basis.
And yes, they can decline off the bat.
But so sad that an uplifting time out during the weeks that it would work shouldn’t even be an option because they’re being judged if they don’t have an answer right away.
For those who have never been in a situation such as this- you are so so lucky. But empathy can go a long way for someone who is, and it’s so people than we’d like to believe.
I can think of a few friends in these situations right now, and I’m sure there are more who aren’t sharing their personal issues with me.
May you always be on the giving end, and never know what it means to be unable to plan due to chaos in your life.
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amother
Bisque
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 8:18 pm
naomi2 wrote: | Amother mulberry- you are anonymous. Why not share your very good reason for waiting a few days after you get an invitation to decide whether or not to take it. You don't have to defend yourself to your hosts but what do you have to lose here to explain when noone knows who you are.
And It does matter to me when people either don't answer or commit an invite. By Wednesday, the other people I would have invited to replace you, likely already have plans and then I might be left with very little or no company. Also, I feel bad because I assume they are waiting to see if something better is coming up. Or worse, If they would rather stay home alone than join us.
I'm just thinking maybe one of you has an illness that you may not be able to know until Wednesday if you will be functional at the end of the week? |
Yep, this is the part that makes it so annoying.
I get that not in every case are people being intentionally rude, waiting out a more exciting invitation. I get that there are sometimes legitimate reasons a person simply can't commit yet.
I'm just saying that in such a circumstance, rejecting the invitation is probably the most polite, correct thing to do (unless you have a particularly close relationship where you know the hostess truly is ok with late/last minute plans).
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yiddishmom
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 8:44 pm
The underlying problem with this thread, and many other threads, is that people can't fathom and understand that there are other types of people, different circumstances, etc.
I, often times don't commit until later in the week because
1. My husband is self-employed and doesn't know how exactly his work week will play itself out. If it turns out to be a stressful week, he'll prefer to stay home.
2. My child is often under the weather. So depending how his sleep schedule is going for the week, how he is overall during the week, will be a big part of my decision. I will not know that before Wed afternoon.
I never turned down an offer in the hopes that something else, more exciting, will come up. While I'm sure there are a few people who this, I'm even more sure that majority of the people DON'T do this.
If I know that I may have another options, I'll let the inviter know.
If you cannot accommodate a later confirmation, just say so. That's it. Done. It doesn't matter why, what, when, where, the recipient of the invite needs more time to decide.
I myself don't care if I get a confirmation later in the week. But, I do have a more flexible personality. I always say that I prefer knowing by Wed afternoon, but if I get confirmation Thursday evening, or even Friday morning, I'll make it work.
Each to their own.
Just be clear with what you need/ want. There is no need to judge the other person.
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amother
Molasses
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 8:55 pm
Yiddishe mom came here to post a very similar response- it’s literally never about something more exciting.
We’ve been burnt before having to call up Wednesday and cancel because of another ear infection or a full day of work left for Friday.
We make our plans Wednesday, when we get invited I ask ppl if it’s ok to let them know by Wednesday morning and no pressure if that doesn’t work for them.
It’s just our age/ stage in life and knowing what works, snd communicating that!
Not answering is not ok…
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causemommysaid
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:01 pm
This is so silly. There are a million reasons I often can't commit early in the week
1: I have flighty siblings who say they might want to come for shabbos but they don't know yet. They won't want to join for the meal so I might not be able to make it.
2: I have a child getting over a mild cold, cough, whatever, and I don't know how they will be feeling till later in the week.
3: I'm sick or pregnant and am not sure how I will be feeling till later.
4: I invited someone else for a shabbos meal and they didn't get back to me yet so I don't know if I'm free to come.
5: I'm in a fight with my husband and now isn't a good time to bring up shabbos plans. I am waiting a day or so till things calm down.
6: I have a moody preteen child giving me huge issues and having meltdowns and I'm not sure how she will be behaving on shabbos. She just had a huge meltdown and it can last for a few days.
7: An elderly relative isn't doing well and we may need to head out of town last minute.
8: I'm waiting for the rov to get back to me about a questionable bedika and I don't know if it will be mikvah night this shabbos.
Lots of these reasons are not things I'm going to share so I can either decline right away or I can ask if it's ok to get back to the person in a couple days.
Not rude at all.
I don't think I have ever declined an invitation because someone cooler invited me. I'm not cool, no one I hang out with is cool, and I usually accept whichever invitation I got first. Not that I'm getting piles of invitations anyway...
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amother
Mulberry
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:28 pm
amother [ Blushpink ] wrote: | This is so sad.
Because there are so many people who are dealing with difficulties in their lives which do make it impossible to know until late in the week whether going out will work. An ill family member, a mentally ill family member, a stressful work situation which drains you of all energy by the end of the week….
There are so many people going through private difficulties which truly do make things so unpredictable even on a weekly basis.
And yes, they can decline off the bat.
But so sad that an uplifting time out during the weeks that it would work shouldn’t even be an option because they’re being judged if they don’t have an answer right away.
For those who have never been in a situation such as this- you are so so lucky. But empathy can go a long way for someone who is, and it’s so people than we’d like to believe.
I can think of a few friends in these situations right now, and I’m sure there are more who aren’t sharing their personal issues with me.
May you always be on the giving end, and never know what it means to be unable to plan due to chaos in your life. | thank you!
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amother
Mulberry
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:31 pm
naomi2 wrote: | Amother mulberry- you are anonymous. Why not share your very good reason for waiting a few days after you get an invitation to decide whether or not to take it. You don't have to defend yourself to your hosts but what do you have to lose here to explain when noone knows who you are.
And It does matter to me when people either don't answer or commit an invite. By Wednesday, the other people I would have invited to replace you, likely already have plans and then I might be left with very little or no company. Also, I feel bad because I assume they are waiting to see if something better is coming up. Or worse, If they would rather stay home alone than join us.
I'm just thinking maybe one of you has an illness that you may not be able to know until Wednesday if you will be functional at the end of the week? | there are so many answers below which should give you an idea of the million other reasons not mentioned here that can make it happen that you don’t know until Wednesday. I don’t think you need to bear my specific situation to be Dan lekaf zchus. If you would invite me on Sunday and I tell you that I won’t know until Wednesday then you have every right to tell me that this won’t work for you and let’s make it another week when I’ll know earlier.
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amother
Mulberry
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:35 pm
zaq wrote: | Because I have years and years of experience being at the receiving end of this, and my Momma didn't raise no fools. If it were once in a blue moon the dlkz would work, but it happens all. the. time. They will NEVER commit themselves earlier than Thursday night and often not till Friday morning.
BTW, my niece, who is an entire generation younger than I am, is equally disgusted by this behavior.
I have a theory about why certain singles have a hard time getting married: it's all of a piece with being terminally incapable of committing to a Shabbat meal invitation. It's FOMO. They have so many possibilities laid out before them that they become incapable of committing to just one. If I choose A I'll miss out on B-Z, if I accept Zaq's invite to Shabbat lunch this week, what'll happen if some new people to the shul make a really super potluck lunch and I'll have to miss it? Yeah, this guy/girl I went out with is very sweet, but why should I tie myself down to him/her when there are so many others out there who are better off, smarter, better looking, better dressed, more sophisticated, more talented, more upwardly mobile, etc.etc.etc. | this post is disturbing on many levels but I’ll just say that if the friends you are inviting are doing this all the time to you then you should find other friends. Also you should read up on dan lkaf zchus - hint - it does not mean guilty until proven innocent . Also not having an answer by Wednesday (especially when forewarned) is not the same as Thursday or Friday
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amother
Mulberry
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:38 pm
yiddishmom wrote: | The underlying problem with this thread, and many other threads, is that people can't fathom and understand that there are other types of people, different circumstances, etc.
I, often times don't commit until later in the week because
1. My husband is self-employed and doesn't know how exactly his work week will play itself out. If it turns out to be a stressful week, he'll prefer to stay home.
2. My child is often under the weather. So depending how his sleep schedule is going for the week, how he is overall during the week, will be a big part of my decision. I will not know that before Wed afternoon.
I never turned down an offer in the hopes that something else, more exciting, will come up. While I'm sure there are a few people who this, I'm even more sure that majority of the people DON'T do this.
If I know that I may have another options, I'll let the inviter know.
If you cannot accommodate a later confirmation, just say so. That's it. Done. It doesn't matter why, what, when, where, the recipient of the invite needs more time to decide.
I myself don't care if I get a confirmation later in the week. But, I do have a more flexible personality. I always say that I prefer knowing by Wed afternoon, but if I get confirmation Thursday evening, or even Friday morning, I'll make it work.
Each to their own.
Just be clear with what you need/ want. There is no need to judge the other person. | thanks for saying this better than me
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amother
Mulberry
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 9:38 pm
causemommysaid wrote: | This is so silly. There are a million reasons I often can't commit early in the week
1: I have flighty siblings who say they might want to come for shabbos but they don't know yet. They won't want to join for the meal so I might not be able to make it.
2: I have a child getting over a mild cold, cough, whatever, and I don't know how they will be feeling till later in the week.
3: I'm sick or pregnant and am not sure how I will be feeling till later.
4: I invited someone else for a shabbos meal and they didn't get back to me yet so I don't know if I'm free to come.
5: I'm in a fight with my husband and now isn't a good time to bring up shabbos plans. I am waiting a day or so till things calm down.
6: I have a moody preteen child giving me huge issues and having meltdowns and I'm not sure how she will be behaving on shabbos. She just had a huge meltdown and it can last for a few days.
7: An elderly relative isn't doing well and we may need to head out of town last minute.
8: I'm waiting for the rov to get back to me about a questionable bedika and I don't know if it will be mikvah night this shabbos.
Lots of these reasons are not things I'm going to share so I can either decline right away or I can ask if it's ok to get back to the person in a couple days.
Not rude at all.
I don't think I have ever declined an invitation because someone cooler invited me. I'm not cool, no one I hang out with is cool, and I usually accept whichever invitation I got first. Not that I'm getting piles of invitations anyway... | love this!
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lamplighter
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 10:07 pm
I have a lot of experience with people who wait until they see what other invites they get and then decide. This happens all the time with Yom tov and polite me ends up with less exciting plans because everyone else is last minute and I like to plan and make commitments.
Most reasons listed above can be told to the person inviting if you don't want to turn it down right away. You can say my baby is a but under the weather I don't know if she'll be ok to go out then, I already invited some guests they didn't get back to me yet do you mind if I get back to you on xyz, I may have to go out of town so I won't know until xyz. If you're fighting with your husband or it may be mikvah night just decline.
Is it possible that there is a situation where you need a few days and it's too private to say but you still want to be able to say yes, possible but if you're doing this on a regular basis, check yourself.
I personally only invite on Wednesday and I ask to be told by Thursday, to avoid some of this.
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amother
Narcissus
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 10:13 pm
Wow I'm amazed how many of you ladies host guests! I have barely enough time n energy to cook n clean for my own family, let alone guests. Feel free to share tips or ideas!
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yiddishmom
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 10:13 pm
lamplighter wrote: | I have a lot of experience with people who wait until they see what other invites they get and then decide. This happens all the time with Yom tov and polite me ends up with less exciting plans because everyone else is last minute and I like to plan and make commitments.
Most reasons listed above can be told to the person inviting if you don't want to turn it down right away. You can say my baby is a but under the weather I don't know if she'll be ok to go out then, I already invited some guests they didn't get back to me yet do you mind if I get back to you on xyz, I may have to go out of town so I won't know until xyz. If you're fighting with your husband or it may be mikvah night just decline.
Is it possible that there is a situation where you need a few days and it's too private to say but you still want to be able to say yes, possible but if you're doing this on a regular basis, check yourself.
I personally only invite on Wednesday and I ask to be told by Thursday, to avoid some of this. |
You are right, I usually do mention about xyz reason.
The point isn't thought my reason. The point is, you invited me. I let you know I won't know until Wed. Is this OK with you? Just let me know if yes or no. Done.
Regarding YT: that's something else. For YT, I may wait to hear what my other siblings/ siblings in law are doing. YT is kind of a puzzle. But, I usually just go to my parents/ parents-in-law.
If they need to know by a certain time, they'll let me know. And then I'll make my decision earlier.
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causemommysaid
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 10:14 pm
lamplighter wrote: | I have a lot of experience with people who wait until they see what other invites they get and then decide. This happens all the time with Yom tov and polite me ends up with less exciting plans because everyone else is last minute and I like to plan and make commitments.
Most reasons listed above can be told to the person inviting if you don't want to turn it down right away. You can say my baby is a but under the weather I don't know if she'll be ok to go out then, I already invited some guests they didn't get back to me yet do you mind if I get back to you on xyz, I may have to go out of town so I won't know until xyz. If you're fighting with your husband or it may be mikvah night just decline.
Is it possible that there is a situation where you need a few days and it's too private to say but you still want to be able to say yes, possible but if you're doing this on a regular basis, check yourself.
I personally only invite on Wednesday and I ask to be told by Thursday, to avoid some of this. |
You say decline but other people figure that if it's not a big deal, then why not confirm or decline a few days later. Either way, you are communicating and letting the host decide if it's OK with them.
I really don't know what you mean by exciting plans. What grand plans are happening that aren't arranged in advance that a few days would make a difference?
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lamplighter
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 10:54 pm
causemommysaid wrote: | You say decline but other people figure that if it's not a big deal, then why not confirm or decline a few days later. Either way, you are communicating and letting the host decide if it's OK with them.
I really don't know what you mean by exciting plans. What grand plans are happening that aren't arranged in advance that a few days would make a difference? |
The polite thing is to communicate if you need more than a day to get back to them. That's all.
Exciting plans as in getting invited out. I BH have probably 100 guests over Tishrei for example which is a lot of work! Because I am organized and stick to my commitments and don't wait around until the last minute to say yes, I almost never get to eat out.
If I waited on all my plans I could last minute maneuver them to include accepting invitations or saying yes to people that we haven't seen in a long while etc. But I'm not like that. I invite and sometimes people ask to come,and I follow through until each meal is full and then I accept the beautiful mitzvah I have and the combination of guests that worked out.
When my siblings or siblings in law (single or young married) call me late Thursday night I know they didnt get other invites or thier plans to go away fell thru so they want to come to me. If it works for me I say yes if not not. I no longer bother inviting them earlier in the week. They know I have an open home and this is when they fit me in
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out-of-towner
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 11:07 pm
zaq wrote: | I LOVE YOU!
This was precisely my gripe for many years. "We don't know yet what our plans are" is French for "We're waiting to see if a better offer comes along" which is rude, rude, rude. Because, you know, if they already had tentative plans, they'd have said "My Mom was thinking of coming to us but hasn't confirmed yet, she said she'd know by _____day, can I tell you then?" And if Friday night was mikveh night, she'd already know that. |
In theory I agree with you.
But to be DLKZ, at least from my potential perspective: The weather is changing. I have had one kid under the weather over the past couple of days and my kids are good at sharing one after the other. One was actually running a fever on Shabbos morning when we were supposed to eat out Shabbos day. Luckly our hostess was a neighbor so I went over myself and asked what she wanted me to do (making it clear that I had backup food for the meal if she didn't want us to come). She happened to have been fine with it, but I would hate to have had a hostess set up for us and cook with us in mind and not be able to come.
I actually just invited guests for this coming Shabbos, and I pray that all involved stay healthy because I'm looking forward to hosting.
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amother
Hotpink
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 11:17 pm
OK nobody said this so I will.
Sometimes the person didn't respond because they simply forgot.
I know it sounds terribly rude, but for us closet ADHDers , we get distracted by the next thing and often forget to come back to what we were doing.
It's the type that I will call my husband to ask him and he won't pick up, but when he calls me back 5 minutes later, I don't remember why I called.
We don't get invited out very often because we have a bog family, but when we do, I often find myself just forgetting to get back to the person until they ask again.
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amother
Lightyellow
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Mon, Nov 01 2021, 11:29 pm
So how about this.
I invite you and another family on Monday, for Shabbos lunch. It is a lot of work for me to have company and I like to have 2 families together because 1) it helps with conversation 2) it is a lot if work-I do not cook the same for my family as for company so I want to get 2 in and also, I don’t want to eat left overs forever.
Family one says yes right away. Now family 2 can’t give me an answer. FYI, if I wait until Wednesday night or Thursday, family 3 looks and feels like a last minute B list guest and their is a good chance they have plans and now I am scrambling for a second family. I 100% under the need to check with DH. I 100% understand if a kid gets sick last minute or if you say that you are not sure yet if your single sister is coming…. But to leave someone hanging while you wait to see if you are getting a better invitation is unfair. Honestly, just say no thank you don’t leave me hanging and make me feel like I’m being either unreasonable or not gracious or pathetic by actually needing an answer.
*** I am sorry if you have hidden mental health issues and don’t know, but how do you plan for the rest of your family with anything?
If you are pregnant and don’t feel well, either decided you will come and figure it out and taht you don’t want to cook, or politely decline and in 10 weeks or when ever it is you can come back and say remember when…. I’m feeling better now and would love a rain check at your convenience.
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amother
Molasses
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Tue, Nov 02 2021, 12:10 am
lamplighter wrote: | I have a lot of experience with people who wait until they see what other invites they get and then decide. This happens all the time with Yom tov and polite me ends up with less exciting plans because everyone else is last minute and I like to plan and make commitments.
Most reasons listed above can be told to the person inviting if you don't want to turn it down right away. You can say my baby is a but under the weather I don't know if she'll be ok to go out then, I already invited some guests they didn't get back to me yet do you mind if I get back to you on xyz, I may have to go out of town so I won't know until xyz. If you're fighting with your husband or it may be mikvah night just decline.
Is it possible that there is a situation where you need a few days and it's too private to say but you still want to be able to say yes, possible but if you're doing this on a regular basis, check yourself.
I personally only invite on Wednesday and I ask to be told by Thursday, to avoid some of this. |
I actually think we are all playing out different scenarios in our head- where I live now hosting isn’t a big part of the culture and hock and so it’s just not that big a deal. Occasionally I’ll host a few friends/ family or go out for a meal.
When we lived oot I saw what you (and some of the other posters on the thread) are describing- lots of invites, ppl invited earlier and made plans etc. if you invited by Wednesday ppl had plans and it was stressful to hear back from ppl too late. I think this is a key difference in how ppl are perceiving things.
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