Home

Is it mesiras nefesh if one is fully supported?
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions -> Inspirational


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:27 pm
I wanted to put this in interesting discussions but that forum doesnt allow for anonymous posting.

I'm 24, married 2 years with a small baby. My friend is 25, with 3 babies and married 5 years. Her husband is still in learning. She married one of the wealthiest guys from our community. She was telling me that her husband's grandfather bought them a two family house. They live in one apartment, rent free, and the other apartment they (my friend) rents out to another couple and they get to keep the rent. She works as a secretary 9-3. Her babies go to a legal daycare which she gets vouchers for so she pays 450$ a month for all 3

Our other friend was telling me how this is true mesiras nefesh for torah because her husband has the option to go and join his family business (real estate), but instead he chooses to sit and learn.

I didn't say anything because I dont really share my thoughts outloud when I know it will upset someone, but I was discussing it with my husband after. And I really dont think its mesiras nefesh at all. If someone is fully supported, has minimal expenses (groceries, phone bill), its not really living a kollel lifestyle or sacrificing for torah.

Is my thought process flawed? Am I just jealous that my husband isnt in yeshiva atm?

I wanted to discuss this, respectfully, and see what other wiser women have to say.
Back to top

amother




Brown
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:32 pm
He's giving up the option to be rich, and on some level that's giving something up. Does it compare to people who make real sacrifices (according to the norms of their society) so that they can learn? I don't think so. But it doesn't matter what I think. It's a whole lot easier for him to sit and learn than for someone else. The world is not a fair place.
Back to top

FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:33 pm
Bentch her that she should never know what it's like to wonder how you're going to feed your kids this week, or if the electricity gets turned off, or if your car gets towed for lack of payment.

OP, everything you have is determined by Hashem on Rosh Hashana.

I admire you that you keep your thoughts to yourself. May you be rewarded greatly for that.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:41 pm
amother [ Brown ] wrote:
He's giving up the option to be rich, and on some level that's giving something up. Does it compare to people who make real sacrifices (according to the norms of their society) so that they can learn? I don't think so. But it doesn't matter what I think. It's a whole lot easier for him to sit and learn than for someone else. The world is not a fair place.


But they're already very wealthy... her in laws are always buying her new clothing, presents, they go away every bein hazmanim... so it looks like they are living in both worlds... benefits of a husband in kollel (status, kavod, discounts in stores), but living like her lifestyle from before (were from the 5 towns)
Back to top

amother




Pewter
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:42 pm
It’s definitely mesiras nefesh on her part because she has to work. And honestly you don’t know the details. Maybe he’s losing out somehow financially by staying in learning- he could be losing seniority, or could have been making more money now, or could be beholden to his parents… who knows.

I don’t think speculation in this direction is healthy because only Hashem can judge a person’s mesiras nefesh.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:45 pm
amother [ Pewter ] wrote:
It’s definitely mesiras nefesh on her part because she has to work. And honestly you don’t know the details. Maybe he’s losing out somehow financially by staying in learning- he could be losing seniority, or could have been making more money now, or could be beholden to his parents… who knows.

I don’t think speculation in this direction is healthy because only Hashem can judge a person’s mesiras nefesh.


Right, I hear that.
Is working a secretary job considered mesiras nefesh? She told me herself they dont need the money, its just to get her out of the house

And taking my friend out of the equation, I guess my question is also: is it mesiras nefesh if one is fully supported?
Back to top

LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:45 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
But they're already very wealthy... her in laws are always buying her new clothing, presents, they go away every bein hazmanim... so it looks like they are living in both worlds... benefits of a husband in kollel (status, kavod, discounts in stores), but living like her lifestyle from before (were from the 5 towns)


I don't think this is mesirus neesh at all.

Is it sacrificing being rich? Yes. For all I know she has dreams of going on extravagant vacations and hiring a private chef, and making millions - maybe it is difficult to give up those dreams for now.

But is it mesirus nefesh? No. I don't think so.

Sacrificing and making a choice to give up something is to different things.
Back to top

amother




Pewter
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Right, I hear that.
Is working a secretary job considered mesiras nefesh? She told me herself they dont need the money, its just to get her out of the house

And taking my friend out of the equation, I guess my question is also: is it mesiras nefesh if one is fully supported?


I don’t think it’s possible to make that judgement call, as mere humans who don’t know the whole story.


Is it mesiras nefesh for any kollel man, who is being supported by his wife? It’s certainly mesiras nefesh for the wife, but is it so for her husband?
Back to top

Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:55 pm
I personally wouldn't call that mesiras nefesh. All of their wants and needs are taken care of. What exactly are they giving up for torah? When the time comes he'll go into the family business.

But you shouldn't dwell on it. No good will come of it.

If they are constantly making comments about their mesiras nefesh I'd distance myself from them. Just because it would get annoying after awhile.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 1:56 pm
Reality wrote:
I personally wouldn't call that mesiras nefesh. All of their wants and needs are taken care of. What exactly are they giving up for torah? When the time comes he'll go into the family business.

But you shouldn't dwell on it. No good will come of it.

If they are constantly making comments about their mesiras nefesh I'd distance myself from them. Just because it would get annoying after awhile.


She's a good friend but she's made comments to me "every couple should go to eretz yisroel for the year its the best thing for their marriage" I just rolled my eyes and changed the subject...

I guess this is coming from a place of jealousy.
Back to top

amother




Brass
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:01 pm
L’foom tzaara Agra.
You will get Schar according to your sacrifice. It’s not for you to judge her sacrifice. She may think things are hard for her even if to you it appears they are not. Even to a person with little stress 3 kids under the age of 4 is HARD. Everyone has a different way of coping. Every person had different strengths, don’t judge that’s for hashem to do
Back to top

amother




Strawberry
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:03 pm
It’s MN on some level… but your MN is on a higher level. I mean I’m not a Rav, but that’s what I think.
It’s kind of like comparing a woman’s MN who went to a fancy Mikva right near her house when she doesn’t enjoy Mikva vs. our Bubby’s in russia who had to dunk in the freezing lakes and not get caught.
Hashem loves both. But deff u know that hashem realizes what a huge sacrifice you are making for him.
And it’s good that you stayed quite. What she said was quite insensitive TBH. I’ve heard so many stories of people who stayed quite in such circumstances and saw many Brachos. May Hashem bless you to see the Brachos of your sacrifice for Torah that your husband’s learning should no longer feel like a sacrifice.
Back to top

Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:04 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
She's a good friend but she's made comments to me "every couple should go to eretz yisroel for the year its the best thing for their marriage" I just rolled my eyes and changed the subject...

I guess this is coming from a place of jealousy.


Don't be so hard on yourself. It's hard not to roll your eyes at someone who can't see outside her luxury circumstances.

It's best to have friends who are living in similar life circumstances. It will save you grief.
Back to top

amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:05 pm
She has enough money that she only goes to work "to get out of the house"...she has all her basic needs plus extras paid for...really dont see how thats mesiras nefesh. Dont see it at all.
But dont let it get you.
Keep your eyes on the road, and let dumb comments like her "live in EY for the first year" one slide right off. She cant help herself, she literally does not understand what its like not to be her.
Back to top

amother




Pistachio
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:06 pm
I wouldn’t consider it masiras Nefesh. Just something that’s a really nice thing to do. It’s dh dream to go back to Kollel once we have enough money to do that. He was in Kollel the first 10 years of our marriage. We didn’t get any support, I worked two jobs, didn’t spend a penny on any luxuries. That was mesiras Nefesh.
Back to top

lamplighter




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:21 pm
Not mesiras nefesh.

Doesn't mean it's not virtuous, but it's not mesiras nefesh.

Just ignore her comments. She's clueless.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:23 pm
Thanks, my husband actually isnt in kollel for clarification**
Her comment and our other friends comment just upset me because both dh and I really wanted to start off in learning but we didn't get support, so I have a bad habit of comparing myself to my friends in kollel who are making it work while both dh and I struggle each month.

Sometimes I think it would be worth it for dh to leave his job and go to his kollel bc we'd receive discounts, kollel vouches, a stipend etc.

I have alot of questions about the yeshivish system in general but don't have anyone to really ask.

How will this system sustain itself for our children when they are in shidduchim?
Do I want to support my SIL in learning and not have him have any vocational training? (that was my dh, and we seriously struggled in the beg. until he found a job that was perfect for him etc)...
Back to top

amother




White
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:24 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
But they're already very wealthy... her in laws are always buying her new clothing, presents, they go away every bein hazmanim... so it looks like they are living in both worlds... benefits of a husband in kollel (status, kavod, discounts in stores), but living like her lifestyle from before (were from the 5 towns)


Yup. This is what I call “Torah Ugidulah bimakom echod “ Smile Lucky them….
Back to top

amother




Lightcoral
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:28 pm
Is this a joke? Look, he doesn't have to apologize for being supported while he's learning. But it's also not mesiras nefesh. There are plenty of kollel families that truly make sacrifices to stay in learning. Staying in cramped and crowded apartments, not buying meat, and watering down apple juice. It's great that the are getting supported but absolutely not, it's not mesiras nefesh. It cheapens the term to apply it in this case.
Back to top

amother




Scarlet
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 2:31 pm
It's not up to me to judge if it's mesirus nefesh. What I find distasteful is when your friend from her position of living comfortably makes statements like everyone should go to Israel and learn. I'd think it's coming from a place of being young, inexperienced and not very bright. I hear similar clueless statements from a very wealthy friend who is otherwise a really nice person. It's definitely not a good thing about her but she has other nice parts to her personality and I suspect I might also have a few flaws Wink so I overlook it. Trying to weigh other people's mesirus nefesh is a job for Hashem though, not for me or you.
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 6 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions -> Inspirational

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Which one doesn't belong?
by sl1
316 Today at 8:03 pm View last post
Travel insurance -- which one?
by amother
0 Mon, Jan 17 2022, 11:42 pm View last post
ISO One Pot Chicken Lo Mein
by myname1
20 Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:35 pm View last post
Am I the only one who didn't find the magic?
by amother
59 Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:26 am View last post
No one wants 6-8 girls hand me downs
by amother
3 Fri, Jan 14 2022, 2:59 pm View last post