Parenting - Sheltering vs Exposure

Rubies

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:42 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

What would be the impediment to calling it that, though? Embarrassment?

My mother-in-law is not really Chassidish but has many Chassidish customs. I got used to her saying 'p-nis' around me sometimes when talking to her young boys. It's part of parenting now. We've figured out that this is the best thing to do.

A form of cleaner speech? Everyone is going to pounce and say there's nothing unclean about proper terms. Maybe. But terms can be cleaner even when clean. I wouldn't say the proper term when asking a sheilah even though I use the proper term medically.
Hold your horses.

It isn't embarrassment as much as inappropriate unless necessary. Same as anything else. Private parts aren't exposed unless needed. Is it embarrassing? Just inappropriate.

amother

Green

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:45 pm

amother [ Camellia ] wrote:

Obviously don’t expose your kid to bad language.
Family situations- as need arises (if it comes up)

One thing that’s very important is to use body part names. molestation (by brothers, etc) in the chassidish community is higher because they are kept very sheltered in this regard.

This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read. Sheltered does NOT mean that kids aren't taught proper body safety. It's even taught in pre school. Teaching body safety has nothing to do with being Sheltered. Kids can be very Sheltered and also know very well that their body is theirs and no one is allowed to touch them. It's 2 different things. And saying tush instead of v*gina doesn't make a child more susceptible to molestation, come on.
(We shouldn't take any examples from 1 very extreme chassidish poster, what she's describing is extreme and generally not typical chassidish.)

Rubies

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:48 pm

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

This isn't reliable data. For all you know it means chassidishe parents are more likely to seek out help foe their children or you live in an area with more chassidish people, etc.
It's hateful what you are saying.

Or there's another factor that correlates like the amount of children, the probability of parents been raised by holocaust survivors, or unhealthy school system. Or a billion other things.

Rubies

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:53 pm

Also, where is the logic of an English word being the utmost in body safety when many many kids have Yiddish as their primary language?
Lack of simple sechel right there.

amother

Green

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:53 pm

Rubies wrote:

Or there's another factor that correlates like the amount of children, the probability of parents been raised by holocaust survivors, or unhealthy school system. Or a billion other things.

What does all this have to do with being chassidish? All this applies the same to non chassidish.

amother

Green

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:55 pm

Rubies wrote:

Also, where is the logic of an English word being the utmost in body safety when many many kids have Yiddish as their primary language?
Lack of simple sechel right there.

I don't understand what you're trying to point out here.
Chassidish kids know and talk English as well. Even those that just talk yiddish, there's alot of English mixed in.
Teaching proper body safety has zero to do with the language kids speak or with what sect they belong to.

Rubies

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 4:59 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

You misunderstood.

How did you get to this conclusion? Have I said they don't speak English well?

I'll repeat. The reason for abuse is not because a child does not know the proper English term for a body part.

Rubies

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 5:00 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

What does all this have to do with being chassidish? All this applies the same to non chassidish.

Nothing specifically. I brought examples of correlation that may not be causation.

amother

Linen

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 5:01 pm

Being raised by or descended from Holocaust survivors is not exclusive to Chassidish families. Same with growing up in a big family. Welcome to the 1980s lol.

amother

Green

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 5:24 pm

Rubies wrote:

What were you trying to point out by that post?

behappy2

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 6:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Secular culture, bad language, family situations that aren't kosher...

Secular culture can mean so many things. I teach my kids that we are both human and Jewish, that we have things the same and things different and that we are proud to be Jewish. We don't celebrate their holidays for example. If kids ask then I talk about it. I want to empower and educate.

Bad language. Definitely not. Unfortunately kids pick it up but at least they know that it's not ok.

Family situations I don't have so don't have an opinion. I would ask a Rav or wise person. In general with little ones I say less and more as they get older.

I don't think anything should be taboo or that kids should be lied to (in order to "protect" them).

I don't think this is a chassidish thing. This is generally passed down from mother to daughter. If your mother didn't tell you something it's likely you will feel uncomfortable telling it to your child.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 7:04 pm

I know someone that still tries to shelter her kids like my mom did to us. When she's pregnant she carries very tiny and never tells her teenage daughter about it. She hates to go to the hospital when her kids see to make "grand announcement " as she likes to call it . She doesn't tell her kids anything.

taketwo

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:05 pm

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

Stand and not touch. No tissue just not to touch. Tissue is only for an emergency medical situation ch"v such as needing a catheter for a procedure.

There are so many problems with this. Starting with simply treating a real chumra sheh bchumra as halacha. To creating so much shame in teenage boys that may lead them to lack boundaries and further lead them to way worse things.

Regarding safety-
Teach children their private parts are for privacy only. Only they, their parents and doctors can see them AND touch them.

One day your boys grow up and hormones play a huge role in their life. If they by mistake fall and touch there they will feel like I'm anyway a sinful person who couldn't control myself I may as well do worse. Plus they will carry so much body shame, I pity their future wife.

Yes there is a machlokos between naming body parts versus saying private parts. I won't comment on that topic. But at least leave the conversation open for your children. Whichever word you choose.

amother

Daffodil

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:12 pm

The whole using the proper name thing is such nonsense. And I don't care that psychologists are all into it, it doesn't make it less nonsense. The only issue is a kid calling it a word that doesn't mean private part like cookie. But saying any identifying names that indicate exactly which body part it is, is fine and safe. Also you do not pee out of your v*gina so if you are going to advocate for correct terms I expect you to not call it a v*gina.

amother

Daffodil

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:13 pm

SafeAtLast wrote:

How often do you hear children say that their parents exposed them to too much?

In some circles actually quite often. I have moved around until I found my place so I was exposed to all extremes and believe it or not that extreme exists too.

BrisketBoss

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:16 pm

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

The whole using the proper name thing is such nonsense. And I don't care that psychologist are all into it, it doesn't make it less nonsense. The only issue is a kid calling it word that doesn't mean private part like cookie. But saying any identifying names that indicate exactly which body part it is, is fine and safe. Also you do not pee out of your v*gina so if you are going to advocate for correct terms I expect you to not call it a v*gina.

I definitely agree with your last sentence. Sadly I think some adults don't realize they are not using the right word.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:20 pm

amother [ Camellia ] wrote:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for a second. That molestation in the Chassidish community is higher than elsewhere.

Anyone making that claim (pure motzei shem rah) had better be prepared to back that up with data. Control group, peer reviewed, etc. Otherwise it's just an opinion and a very ignorant one at that.

amother

Bottlebrush

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:36 pm

I was recently listening to the song “Jolene” (harmless, right?) and it struck me how awful it is, and how I’d never want my daughter to listen to it and internalize the message and culture. It’s so awful, I realized I have no more faith in secular culture.
I’ve decided to keep secular music out of my household as much as possible. (Not including covers by frum artists or music without lyrics)

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:43 pm

We rarely watch movies, but every now and then I would take out an old show for all of us to watch (I'm dating myself, now everything is available online).

When you don't usually watch them, it becomes glaring- even these old, innocent shows. Popeye (watch how Popeye treats Olive Oyl), Bugs Bunny (violence, hurting people as a "joke"), even I Love Lucy (the bickering between the Mertz's makes me wince, plus the Ricardos are constantly scheming and hiding things from each other). These are not shows that promote good middos. And that's the old, supposedly better ones.