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Parenting - Sheltering vs Exposure
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 8:58 pm
behappy2 wrote:
Secular culture can mean so many things. I teach my kids that we are both human and Jewish, that we have things the same and things different and that we are proud to be Jewish. We don't celebrate their holidays for example. If kids ask then I talk about it. I want to empower and educate.

Bad language. Definitely not. Unfortunately kids pick it up but at least they know that it's not ok.

Family situations I don't have so don't have an opinion. I would ask a Rav or wise person. In general with little ones I say less and more as they get older.

I don't think anything should be taboo or that kids should be lied to (in order to "protect" them).

I don't think this is a chassidish thing. This is generally passed down from mother to daughter. If your mother didn't tell you something it's likely you will feel uncomfortable telling it to your child.


I agree everything should be encouraged to be safe to discuss when there are questions about stuff... that's not what I meant by sheltering...

More like having TV shows, movies, secular music that has all these values and exposure to all these new types of relationships/family situations/ gender stuff I'd really rather not expose my children to...

I wouldn't hide it if they heard about it bc I don't agree with that level of sheltering...

I dream of a world that these things wouldn't be so out there and we wouldn't be surrounded by such new age issues.. they weren't issues of the 80s or 90s
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 9:00 pm
amother [ Bottlebrush ] wrote:
I was recently listening to the song “Jolene” (harmless, right?) and it struck me how awful it is, and how I’d never want my daughter to listen to it and internalize the message and culture. It’s so awful, I realized I have no more faith in secular culture.
I’ve decided to keep secular music out of my household as much as possible. (Not including covers by frum artists or music without lyrics)


Yes, I agree but so hard to stop listening to secular music...
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amother




Green
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 9:03 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I agree everything should be encouraged to be safe to discuss when there are questions about stuff... that's not what I meant by sheltering...

More like having TV shows, movies, secular music that has all these values and exposure to all these new types of relationships/family situations/ gender stuff I'd really rather not expose my children to...

I wouldn't hide it if they heard about it bc I don't agree with that level of sheltering...

I dream of a world that these things wouldn't be so out there and we wouldn't be surrounded by such new age issues.. they weren't issues of the 80s or 90s


TV, movies, secular music is also not a chassidish vs non chassidish thing. Right wing non chassidish, yeshivish, litvish.... don't have TV, watch movies, or listen to secular music.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Nov 21 2021, 9:05 pm
I don't see the advantage of exposing kids to these things (movies for example). On the other hand since kids today are aware be prepared to have these conversations with your kids. I try to subtly teach anti culture. For example I will talk about that we get married we stay with that one person and that is a Jewish thing (drop the concept of not cheating) I do this when it comes into conversation.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 4:08 am
I taught my kids the name: Private. no need to say the word p., they aren't 'more ignorant' because of that.
They know that the p. is not something to discuss publicly, and that the private is not an ugly thing to touch.

Calling it: "Not allowed to ever" touch it, is bad terms to use.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 4:34 am
The problem with calling all parts "private parts" with no more specific names is that it can actually lead to inappropriate implications. For example, a child might talk about how little elephants put their noses on big elephants' private parts (because they walk trunk to tail).
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 4:46 am
There are here more definitions and other things going on.

Secular culture doesn't mean using bad words, insulting and everything because you can hear that within your chassidishe mosdos aswell. I personally really despite the way how the word g-y or sh@getz are used. Or that people talk really bad about people who are not Jewish. Most of my family is not Jewish, my father respects my frumkeit more then my halachially jewish mom.

Exposing kids to secular culture as in TV shows as nickelodeon or something. That is a choice you are right to do so. Same with xmas things and everything.

Secular music, Bach can also be secular music, Jazz (without songtexts) is also secular music... There is a huge difference to listen to that and to listen SnoopDogg where he is rapping about zex.

Naming bodyparts, also secular parents struggle with these things. My mom who literally went to pro-choice rallys in the 80s, against nuclear weapon rallyls and never got married with my dad because marriage meant supression. Never used the autonomically correct word for privateparts and was in a way really prudish. What we weren't allowed though was using the the word f@g as curseword same with saying 'stupid Turk' or 'stupid black' she would ground us. I think the last is called basic middos.

Genderpolitics and everything, I don't know about that. Personally, I don't see harm by telling this to children same with that g@y person exists. There is no research done that this make children g@y or trans. I knew when I was 4 that my mom had a friend who was gay, I'm still straight... I had in my high school one transgender and I'm still a cis-gender woman. I believe that especially in the USA there are diehard people who are over the top with this kind of politics at both sides but please I feel that the USA is in lots of things over the top if I take it from my European view. I mean really there is this Dutch guy on insta who moved to the USA and is filming Costo and Walmart for a Dutch person that store is unbelievable the same with guns and everything. Americans sometimes don't have any knowledge of how much their country is in extremes.

At the end I find to make kiddush hashem more important then being conservative and have a holier then thou appereance. If someone tells me he/she is trans (I don't find this a secular thing, I mean if you are trans in a baptist community in the midwest you are not happy) I'm not going to do anything... I will be gentle and everyhting. If I will contradict them it is 'oh see jews are not agreeing with this''. I have (jewish) family who finds it really conservative and extreme that I wear a sheital. They are curious to which sect I belong am I as frum as the people in Antwerp with the peyos? Yes? But my husband doesn't wear peyos... how does that work? I go to Antwerp talk with let's say a Belzer woman and she is like 'modernish, litvish kinda woman who watches netflix and the like'.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 1:56 pm
I lean towards sheltered but with a balance.

1. Teach kids that private areas (covered by bathing suit) are PRIVATE and
not to be touched by anybody except a doctor (or parent bathing/changing a baby).

2. Around 10 kids have to be taught about puberty.
Girls should be taught about menstruation and how to deal with it.

3. By Bar/Bas Mitzvah kids should know how babies are made - taught by parent.

4. Also always answer any questions, you don't have to give ALL the information but
you should not refuse to answer questions.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:00 pm
My mother said she didn't know homos*xuality existed until after she was married (1950s).

Even adults were sheltered back then!
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amother




Green
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:02 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
My mother said she didn't know homos*xuality existed until after she was married (1950s).

Even adults were sheltered back then!


For sure. The world in general was more sheltered. The unacceptable has become acceptable.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:13 pm
sequoia wrote:
....

*incoherent screaming*

PLEASE teach them the correct name. P-nis.

Also, don’t boys have to hold it to aim when they pee?


Becomes a problem when you talk in yiddish... But yea, can lead to more problems if you don't teach it.

Editing to add - I see this was already discussed up thread.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:30 pm
amother [ Valerian ] wrote:
You're wrong. It is not allowed to ever be touched. If an emergency or for a medical thing you can use a tissue like to put on a clean with a tissue but no its not allowed to be touched. Ask a shaila you'll see.


OMG.. Never in my life.

I was taught by my chasidish Kallah teacher to touch my husband during sx to guide him to correct place. Let us not even go into what else happens in bed...

I teach my son to soap properly or else redness and rash will happen.

Chasidish Satmar Kollel family if that helps!
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amother




Valerian
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:44 pm
Call your dayan and ask if this is allowed. It is not and the boys are taught even in cheder AFAIK so you would want to be on the same page here.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:49 pm
amother [ Valerian ] wrote:
Call your dayan and ask if this is allowed. It is not and the boys are taught even in cheder AFAIK so you would want to be on the same page here.


Just speaking for myself here...if I teach my kids to do something for their health, I don't care what a dayan has to say about it.
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amother




Green
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 2:50 pm
amother [ Valerian ] wrote:
Call your dayan and ask if this is allowed. It is not and the boys are taught even in cheder AFAIK so you would want to be on the same page here.


I asked my husband and mother about this. My husband said that sick people teach this to their kids and it does more harm then good.
My husband and brothers are from frum chassidish cheders and have NOT learnt such a crazy thing. They're taught that they shouldn't touch for pleasure. But they're allowed to and SHOULD touch when there's reason to (like going to the bathroom or taking a bath/shower, adjusting the underwear.....). What's taught in extreme cheders is not mainstream chassidish opinion.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 9:16 pm
amother [ Valerian ] wrote:
Call your dayan and ask if this is allowed. It is not and the boys are taught even in cheder AFAIK so you would want to be on the same page here.


I will not. I'll continue teaching him to the best of my ability proper hygiene and body safety. If cheder will teach otherwise, we'll worry then.

I'm actually very pro asking. I even use my dayan for a 'gita yid' and not for halacha questions only.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Mon, Nov 22 2021, 9:18 pm
What. Do you also teach your boys never to put their hands in their pockets?
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