Responding nastily to posts

liveandlove.ima

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 1:49 am

Jewishmom8 wrote:

I think things have gotten worse because the culture in the whole world has become nasty.
Covid has done it.
People have been through a lot of trauma in all different ways.
and people get really really heated about the vax or about politics. all those topics are more heated than ever before.

Okay so I removed these topics from my preference a while ago why am still experiencing the heat elsewhere?
I try to focus on the fun conversations and when I see a thread going south I bug out.

amother

Natural

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 2:30 am

I can sorta understand it in the politics forum or in heated issues like abuse, because that's the culture today. It's a shame that it's that way, but that's the way it is in the outside world, so it's understandable that it seeps its way in and affects frum Jews.

What really gets my goat though is when people are really rude on non heated issues, because it is just so unnecessary. If an amother asks for advice, and the answer is just so obvious to you, please just tell her the answer, and if you want to add something, add "behatzlacha", not "I can't believe anybody would even need to ask this!"

Amother: my water doesn't boil on my kettle after 1 minute, do I need a new stove?

RudePerson: hello? Were you raised in a barn? How could someone not know this?
OP, you don't need a new stove, you need either patience or a brain. I am getting sick of people asking this kind of no brain question. What communities do these people come from that their mothers don't teach them basic stuff?....

Surrendered

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 2:42 am

Same here. I also respond the same way I'd speak with a person IRL. I mentioned many times here that we're all humans behind our posts and need to 'speak' with respect.
Incase someone ever got hurt through a comment or response through me, I truly apologize. I try to be very careful not to say anything that might be accepted as hurtful.
The reality is that 'hurt people, hurt people'.
No one means to be mean.
when a person is in pain, they can interpret things wrong.
we all come from different backgrounds and upbringings and speak from our experiences.

chanatron1000

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 2:54 am

Reality wrote:

Yup. Lately I've posted under my screen name unpopular views/ opinions. I was absolutely torn to shreds by a bevy of anonymous posters, calling me names and saying horrible things about me and my family.

Totally not normal.

If this is about what I think it's about, those unpopular views and opinions included some statements that some posters perceived as an attack on people like them, blaming them or holding them responsible for harm that was done to them.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:04 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

Even so, there are nice ways to point out the error in someone's ways, and not nice ways to do it.

"Dear Poster, you may not realize this, but you sound like you are blaming me for being a victim. I'm assuming you don't really mean that, would you mind adding a disclaimer to your post, or clarifying your point?"

"Horrible poster, it is people like you who destroy the world. It is your fault I was a victim, because of people like you who don't stand up against abuse. You deserve to be abused like I was so you never say anything as heartless and inconsiderate again. I wish we didn't have people like you on this site. You're probably an abuser yourself or married to one."

ora_43

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:10 am

I think it's partly because so many people are anonymous. Like, not just in the way we all are (believe it or not, ora_43 is not my legal name), but posting as amother so that nobody has any sense of who they are based on past posts.

People think they act the same when they are or aren't anonymous. Kinda like how everyone thinks that advertising doesn't affect them, and everyone feels objective when it comes to politics.

And yet, when people can say whatever they want without it being linked to their screen name, a lot of people say some really nasty stuff.

Yes, some people are nasty either way. But as someone who's been on this site since before 2/3 of the posters on any given thread were "amother" - it didn't used to be this bad. And at least then you could say "oh, that's just PosterX, she's always mean, it's nothing personal" instead of feeling like someone secretly hates you and it could be anyone.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:17 am

Two other thoughts:

1. Politics is a little different.

The politics section has gotten very ugly, and I really wish that posters who say things like "all supporters of XX party are evil" would get at least a temporary ban.

But in general, I think it's OK that a handful of forums allow spirited debate, in the sense of posters tearing each other's arguments apart. It's when that happens in forums like emotional health that it gets problematic.

2. In general, people are way more sensitive to nasty things other people say about them, then nasty things they say themselves. I am, you are, everyone is.

Point being, sometimes people are like "why is this person being so mean to me??" and the answer is "because what you said to her was pretty awful, and now she's feeling attacked and attacking back."

Reality

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 3:53 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

Ok. That was one thread. But I was posting under my screen name and none of them were. I was at a disadvantage because plenty of people who know me irl know my screen name. I don't have to air all my issues and problems publicly. Yet they had no problem collectively jumping on me. That is so wrong.

Those posters have no idea where I'm coming from and had no problem calling me ignorant and man-like, that I have a poor relationship with my kids, among other nasty remarks.

I was stating my opinion which they found hurtful. They were purposely saying hurtful things to me. See the difference?

amother

Forsythia

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:05 am

Reality wrote:

Not quite. Even after you were told you were being majorly insulting, you repeated yourself again and again. That means you were the one purposely being hurtful. I quit that thread because it was explained so many times and I refused to further hit a brick wall.

Sometimes "nastiness" is perception and people have blind spots about what they themselves post.

salt

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:17 am

It's very difficult to know if your post is going to be seen as 'nasty'.
Someone could be complaining about her sister in law, who is very interfering, and then I may want to express my view, that actually I think OP is being very immature and her sister in law is doing nothing wrong.
I can say it in the nicest way, but OP will not think I'm being nice. She will think I'm being mean.

If there are going to be discussions, there may be a lot of disagreeing, which might sound mean.
Unless this site is going to revert to recipes any disagreement can sound mean.

It's a fine line.

A few minutes ago someone started an OP asking what's going on with the Chaim Walder case - has anyone come forward yet to the police. Now I think we've churned this topic enough, and leave the guy alone until he's proven guilty, leave it to the police and don't take a journalist's scoop too seriously, as it can lead to lashon hara and ruin a person's life.
So is it mean of me to say that to OP? It's really what I think.

Reality

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:29 am

amother [ Forsythia ] wrote:

That was your perception. I thought I was explaining myself again/better.

If you re-read the thread you will see that I didn't personally attack anyone yet many of the anonymous posters attacked me personally, not my opinion.

amother

Forsythia

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:40 am

Reality wrote:

And once again. This is your perception which I disagree with.
If you are told by numerous people that you're being offensive and then you go and repeat yourself over and over, then you can't cry victim pages later.
When people are posting their sensitive stories, your blame-the-victim opinions were attacking them personally whether or not you addressed specific posters.

Reality

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 4:50 am

amother [ Forsythia ] wrote:

You are allowed to have your perception but I'm not?

I am not crying victim. Where did I call people names? Where did I assume poor relationships with my family members? No where.

So my mistake was to continue posting where I wasn't wanted. Got it. So therefore I deserved to be attacked. Thank you. I got the memo now.

amother

Forsythia

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 5:04 am

Reality wrote:

I'm not censoring you and I'm not condoning personal attacks. I'm pointing out the reason sometimes for "nasty" posts- it's based on perception. And that people have blind spots about what they themselves post. Therefore you aren't reading the same thread I am, as it happened. You fail to see your posts there as insulting (ironic when you're calling for personal responsibility) and you complained several times that you are the one being attacked. To me that's crying victim. Disregarding the cause and effect as it played out.

Reality

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 5:16 am

amother [ Forsythia ] wrote:

I am differentiating between posting an opinion that others find insulting, subjective, and outright going after someone, objective. It seems to me you are not able to do that.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 5:30 am

Reality wrote:

I am differentiating between posting an opinion that others find insulting, subjective, and outright going after someone, objective. It seems to me you are not able to do that.

Because that's not always a reasonable distinction to make.

Not talking about whatever thread it is you all are referencing, just talking in general.

For one thing, there isn't always a line between "opinion" and "insult." Like, if Poster A says trickle-down economics doesn't work, and Poster B gets offended by that, that's on Poster B. OTOH if Poster A says that only a moron could possibly believe in trickle-down economics, of course Poster B will get offended - it was an insult.

Which is the second thing - just because it's not individual, doesn't mean it's not personal. Eg "republicans are racist" or "democrats are liars" are both insults to every person in those groups - even though no one person is being singled out.

Again, not talking about the previous debate - just talking general rules for polite conversation. If someone shares an opinion that isn't insulting, of course they shouldn't be attacked, but OTOH if it's an 'opinion' along the lines of "people who do (whatever) are morons" then obviously everyone in that category is going to react as if they've been personally insulted. Because they have.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 5:36 am

I think there's a few factors at play here:

1. Covid. We're almost 2 years into the pandemic, with no real end in sight. It's making everyone cranky. (Now kids are home with colds, flu, and strep, so that just compounds everything.)

2. Cowardly use of amothers. This is not OK. Amothers is for protecting sensitive information about your personal life, not for attacking OR hiding from attacks. Own your words like a big girl.

3. Mods are too lenient, and uneven. I get a PM calling me out for a snarky comment, yet posters who are 100x more offensive on a daily basis get free reign. There's no incentive to be nice if you don't see mods caring about it, or the appearance of playing favorites in moderation.

Thankfully, we have the "Immediate Reaction to Thread Titles" going, and I do my best to put all of my snark in that thread. "I just got a new pair of socks. How do I know which foot?" Yeah, that calls for a snarky reaction, but not in that thread. Save it for the Immediate Reaction thread. (If you can't take a joke, stay out of that thread. We are savage!)

Also, IMHO any thread that starts out with "Is This Normal?" automatically invites snark. Again, put your reaction in the right thread, not on the OP. Posters, please write titles that are more descriptive!

Reality

Wed, Nov 24 2021, 5:51 am

ora_43 wrote:

I agree with you.

On that thread other posters were lumping women who were manipulated into going further than they wanted to with children who were abused. I see a big difference between a child and an adult. No where did I call anyone names. I was crucified for saying women need to take responsibility for their actions. I still believe that. An adult has to take responsibility for allowing themselves to be manipulated. And I said very clearly I wasn't talking about rape or an attack. It didn't matter to the swarm of anonymous posters who came out swinging against me.