Ungrateful | Imamother

#BestBubby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 12:26 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

It makes you wonder why we used to make children ignore their own feelings in order to protect adult’s feelings. It’s really backwards. Adults should be more mature and understand that children aren’t fully developed. And they should not expect children to be able to overcome things they still can’t do as an adult. It really makes no sense.

it is not about protecting ADULTS feelings but PEOPLES feelings. Including CHILDREN who give a gift they dont like or already have.

The child worship on this site...

and then people wonder why kids are so ungrateful, so entitled.

This post is why! keep excusing hurtful behavior.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 12:30 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Right let’s promote adult worship instead. Especially unhealthy adults, they definitely deserve the most worship.

EBY

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 12:43 pm

I don't think this has been suggested yet...
I like to say to my kids "let's do a redo", and then I model for them the exact respectful words they could use. "Thank you so much for thinking of me". "it's so nice that you got me a present". Then I ask them to say it. It doesn't always work, but often it does and they get the point. I feel from my own perspective as well that hearing them say it, even though I told them to and they might not mean it, makes a difference to me (similar to threads about showing your DH how to compliment you.... Everyone in my house knows that thank yous and sorries should be as specific as possible).
Today my eight year old came home expecting a popsicle. She made angry comments and gave dirty looks for a while. Then I modeled for her what she could have said, "mommy, is there something else I could have instead of a popsicle? Can you buy some more next time you are in the store?" She was still grumpy, and she didn't say what I wanted her to say, but I hope maybe she will next time.

applesbananas

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:10 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Hi BB. I’m probably like 30 years younger than you. So I’m going to write this in a respectful way and non anon.

Curious why it seems you have an agenda. You feel very very strongly about respect and you write about it on every thread where it’s relevant. Most people here really really disagree with you.

There is a concept called “gal gal u’chozer” it’s basically what comes around goes around. Your parenting style seems outdated. There are professionals out there who blatantly disagree with your ways. Yes of course it had its positives but the previous generation also suffered in many ways that the current generation is trying to undo. (And then the next generation will try to undo our mistakes)

You have the let us ride it out. No need to make a huge fuss on every thread. We all know how you feel, we can write it for you at this point. It’s just very repetitive and hogs a good conversation over and over again.
Maybe think about it before posting the same things time and time again.

I hope this doesn’t come across disrespectful that is not my intention...

#BestBubby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:13 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Right let’s promote adult worship instead. Especially unhealthy adults, they definitely deserve the most worship.

The TORAH says children should honor adults not adults should Honor children.

TORAH also says to be mechanech children not to say hurtful things. can even say not emes for sholom.

but you follow the anti torah experts who have destroyed a generation.

amother

Tuberose

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:15 pm

applesbananas wrote:

Very well said

#BestBubby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:19 pm

applesbananas wrote:

The Torah is never outdated.

People follow the modern experts and then complain over and over on this site why their children are so out of control, chutzpadik, ungrateful, entitled etc.

If you allow children to be abusive they become abusers.

And I believe I am reaching some people who are capable of critical thinking and dont just follow the herd.

applesbananas

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:28 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I don’t want to engage too much and go in circles.

A lot of us (millennials) are well educated, take classes and try not to make the mistakes our parents (gasp!) made

I can’t speak for anyone else but there are 70 ways the torah can be interpreted. When I have a serious chinuch question I turn to daas torah which I think is more than I can say for parents who basically winged it. You seem to have one view of the Torah’s ways which is ironically, anti torah ..

I’m very grateful for my upbringing but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking every parent had it perfectly down worked out. There were plenty of mistakes made on us.

Lizzie4

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:32 pm

To expect normal young children to thank their parents is unnatural.

Older children/teens (more often girls) can be more inclined to thank their parents.

Younger children not as much. I think it's great to model proper behavior. How often do you thank them for doing things that they are supposed to do? If their view, anything you do is expected. Do you thank your spouse publicly for doing everyday chores?

Here are some things I do to promote thankfulness:

Playacting - Pretend to be them and say, "I love the gift you got me! Thank you!", (but really this is unnecessary. Their reaction and obvious enjoyment of unexpected gifts is really the biggest thank you you can get and this is why nothing is ever a given in my house. No, you are not entitled to Chanukah presents or a prize/candy in the store. If I give you one, that is a super special bonus. Birthday presents are expected but that's 1 time/year)

Ask them questions:
"What was your funnest part of our trip?"
"Did you like the pizza or ice cream the best from our special dinner?"
"What would you like to do that is special for your birthday?"- Make sure to listen to their ideas, and maybe even write them down. When my kids really want specific toys, I encourage them to draw pictures of their wish lists/dream toy and tell me more about it.

I enjoy taking my kids to the toy store where they all help pick out a present for a sibling's birthday. No-one feels entitled to me buying them a present and we can all ooh and ah at the different options without feeling anxious about kids whining for mommy to also buy them something.

Lizzie4

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:35 pm

Also and this should be obvious: Don't stoop to their level and act upset when your kids complain/vent about something good you did for them.

Their disappointment is their own feelings and you can validate that while knowing in your mind that you did the best you could and it is never really up to you to make your kids happy.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:41 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

So all of us who were raised by your generation are clearly unhappy with our upbringing and are trying to give our kids a better world. Doesn’t that indicate that these messages you try to insist are the perfect way obviously didn’t work on the children? I’m very familiar with your methods I experienced them and I would never choose to put my children through that. All of us spent entirely too much undoing the damage. I model and teach all about good middos and keeping the Torah. But I don’t force unrealistic and cruel expectations on my children. And there are plenty of bumps in the roads but that’s what childhood is all about, and I’m so glad my kids are already growing up happier and healthier. ( yes I know your kids are different and loved their upbringing, I’m really happy for them )

Laiya

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My kids (8 and younger) had 2 fun chanukah parties so far, got nice presents both nights...In general bH they have everything they need and want. I am feeling so frustrated as all I get from them are complaints. Please tell me what I am doing wrong...this is not a chanukah issue. Its all the time, its highlighted to me now and seeking some advice.

Because you said it's an all the time issue and not just on chanukah, and other posters gave some good suggestions.

Is it possible that you can spend more time with them one on one? Sometimes I think kids can start to get into a mode of complaining or asking for things when really, what they're looking for is our attention.

#BestBubby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 2:49 pm

Entitled children/people are never happy.

Only people who appreciate what they have are happy. And this must be taught, role modeling etc.

This generation is the most unhappy. most anxiety/depression, highest suicide, drug abuse etc.

So I dont see howanyone can claim that modern parenting resulted in happier more mentally healthier children.

tigerwife

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:40 pm

applesbananas wrote:

Honestly, rereading Best Bubby’s first two posts on this thread, I’m confused about how this is about respect or power to adults.

We should absolutely model the behavior we want to see in our kids. And we should be careful not to hurt other people’s feelings, whether they are older or younger than you. If your friend went out of their way to buy you a gift, you should at least appreciate the gesture even if pistachio macaroons aren’t your taste. It’s about incorporating gratitude into your life, not squashing your feelings.

tp3

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:41 pm

I'm listening to Shais Taub explain that parents have to have unconditional pride in their children. Unconditional love is one thing but unconditional pride is next level.
That means that no matter what they do or don't do, when they enter the room your face lights up with pride. Because of who they are. A child is an expression of Elokus, a pure neshama. Even when they do things against your value system.
Just like we are not perfect but Hashem calls us "מעשה ידי להתפאר" "the work of My hands in which I take pride."

I always felt this but never heard someone say it so well.
It is not child worship, it's recognizing the intrinsic value of a child. The existence of a child should not be taken for granted. Children are not there for us, not to feed our ego, not to keep us occupied, not to give us nachas. We are here for them.

Lizzie4

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:46 pm

tp3 wrote:

. Children are not there for us, not to feed our ego, not to keep us occupied, not to give us nachas. We are here for them.

This. Once you develop your own sense of self value and worth you don't need your child to thank you or stroke your ego by complimenting you. It's just unnecessary.

They are wonderful just by being them and it should give you pleasure to be with them regardless of what you do or don't give them.

amother

Impatiens

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:50 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Kids have to be taught social skills like not hurting people's feelings by saying you dont like their gift.

Kids used to be taught "its the thought that counts"

Yes but when you realize it’s about their disappointment the gratitude issue falls away. I find that if you let the disappointment ride out, validate their feelings, they will get over it faster. They are happy with the present but wanted something else, they will find the happiness when the initial disappointment fades.