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7 year old still not toilet trained at night.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 9:48 am
My son is 6 and same problem. He’s a mouth breather. I checked adenoids and they’re fine. Is there anyway to stop this aside from putting huge contraptions at night in their mouth. I saw something about breathable tape tho I can’t imagine he would agree to that.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 10:34 am
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
My son is 6 and same problem. He’s a mouth breather. I checked adenoids and they’re fine. Is there anyway to stop this aside from putting huge contraptions at night in their mouth. I saw something about breathable tape tho I can’t imagine he would agree to that.
Look for tongue tie, sometimes the tongue is too back in the mouth because it’s tied and can’t move around properly and obstructs airway when laying down causing apnea. Can also be caused by small jaw, narrow arched palate which have a variety of causes. Have him evaluated by an airway informed orthodontist, he may be a candidate for myobrace , Alf, or biobloc , and also myofunctional therapy
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:23 pm
My question on this topic(I’m dealing with a 7 year old whose bed wetting as well) is when did it become normal? I don’t think it was “normal” when I was growing up..I’m 34. Maybe it was “common” then but I don’t believe it was “normal”. There were no pull ups then.

I do believe it can be a host of things and if the childs been trained to go in pullups at night versus your 4 year old who wears underwear I think that’s a factor too. But I’m just so curious when it became normal?
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:28 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Look for tongue tie, sometimes the tongue is too back in the mouth because it’s tied and can’t move around properly and obstructs airway when laying down causing apnea. Can also be caused by small jaw, narrow arched palate which have a variety of causes. Have him evaluated by an airway informed orthodontist, he may be a candidate for myobrace , Alf, or biobloc , and also myofunctional therapy


My daughter is in an ALF and still having accidents 1-2 times a week. If I wake her she does not. We’re trying classical homeopathy now and it’s helping with other anxiety issues but I do believe with her specifically this is anxiety ridden. She only started after corona hit and from 2.5-5 years old was completely dry at night.

She had tt revised at 5. Didn’t see a difference

Anyone do pelvic floor PT? I really don’t want to subject her to it but curious if anyone had results. Also biofeedback or neurofeedback
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amother




Hyacinth
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:32 pm
My siblings who are in their 30s and 40s wet their beds, stopped at some point (by age 10-11) and grew into completely functional and accomplished adults. My kids also wet at night until they stopped on their own and they are now 100% fine. The only difference between then and now is that my mother had to wash a lot of wet bed linens and I rarely had to due to the availability of Good Nites.

I'm not really sure what whose who are commenting about common and normal mean. If this is a common problem that the vast majority of children outgrow without any intervention, why do we need to say it's abnormal and start investigating all sorts of obscure possible causes, doing therapy, and who knows what else? Don't we have enough other things to worry about?

OP, you can discuss with your son's pediatrician, but I'm quite sure he will be fine!
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amother




Pink
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:33 pm
amother1223 wrote:
My question on this topic(I’m dealing with a 7 year old whose bed wetting as well) is when did it become normal? I don’t think it was “normal” when I was growing up..I’m 34. Maybe it was “common” then but I don’t believe it was “normal”. There were no pull ups then.

I do believe it can be a host of things and if the childs been trained to go in pullups at night versus your 4 year old who wears underwear I think that’s a factor too. But I’m just so curious when it became normal?


I agree that people are confusing common and normal. Not trying. To label anything or anyone abnormal. But just because it’s common doesn’t mean that it’s normal
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:36 pm
amother1223 wrote:
My daughter is in an ALF and still having accidents 1-2 times a week. If I wake her she does not. We’re trying classical homeopathy now and it’s helping with other anxiety issues but I do believe with her specifically this is anxiety ridden. She only started after corona hit and from 2.5-5 years old was completely dry at night.

She had tt revised at 5. Didn’t see a difference

Anyone do pelvic floor PT? I really don’t want to subject her to it but curious if anyone had results. Also biofeedback or neurofeedback
Anxiety and enuresis share common root causes but I don’t believe one causes the other. Even with an Alf and constitutional hp she can still be having autonomic dysfunction. Honestly I would look into neuroinflammation as a source of the dysfunction. Treating chronic strep, going gluten and dairy free, high dose magnesium and high dose vit b1 in the form of lipotiamine has gone a long way towards helping us eliminate enuresis because we lowered inflammation and supported the autonomic nervous system nutritionally. Incidentally these treatments help us a ton with anxiety and fight flight as well. We are currently also pursuing constitutional hp and myofunctional therapy but these are very long term goals. Healing chronic illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, there are so many intertwining factors, you can’t stop at just 1 or 2. Even though each on their own promises to cure all your ills Wink
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:38 pm
amother [ Hyacinth ] wrote:
My siblings who are in their 30s and 40s wet their beds, stopped at some point (by age 10-11) and grew into completely functional and accomplished adults. My kids also wet at night until they stopped on their own and they are now 100% fine. The only difference between then and now is that my mother had to wash a lot of wet bed linens and I rarely had to due to the availability of Good Nites.

I'm not really sure what whose who are commenting about common and normal mean. If this is a common problem that the vast majority of children outgrow without any intervention, why do we need to say it's abnormal and start investigating all sorts of obscure possible causes, doing therapy, and who knows what else? Don't we have enough other things to worry about?

OP, you can discuss with your son's pediatrician, but I'm quite sure he will be fine!


I think this is an outlook. I’m overwhlemed yes- but if I know something can help my child, is it responsible for me to be oblivious to that?

Im not trying to sound vindictive here. Bed wetting in later years causes emotional issues (if that’s not the root cause of them) sleepovers, sleep away camps. Yes making a big deal of it at home can be damaging but more damaging is other kids making fun of it. Or are we past that because it’s so much more common now?
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amother




Hyacinth
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:49 pm
Quote:
I think this is an outlook. I’m overwhlemed yes- but if I know something can help my child, is it responsible for me to be oblivious to that?

Im not trying to sound vindictive here. Bed wetting in later years causes emotional issues (if that’s not the root cause of them) sleepovers, sleep away camps. Yes making a big deal of it at home can be damaging but more damaging is other kids making fun of it. Or are we past that because it’s so much more common now?


My children don't start sleepovers and sleepaway camp before the age when they stopped wetting--but in any case, they could wear a GoodNite and nobody would be the wiser, as long as they dispose of it appropriately. I remember my son telling me he noticed GoodNites when he visited friends, so he knew he was in good company (even though they didn't discuss it).

With my first child who had this I tried different things, but they weren't that helpful. He was a deep sleeper so he slept though the alarm when we tried it (I heard it has to wake up the parent, who wakes up the child to take them to the bathroom). When we tried taking him to the bathroom before we went to bed he would collapse on the floor in front of the toilet because he was so fast asleep. We just gave up and stopped making a big deal about it, and ultimately he just stopped on his own--I mean he went from waking up every morning with a sopping GoodNite to waking up completely dry--pretty much overnight (shortly before his 10th birthday). I told him once he was dry every night for 2 weeks he could stop wearing GoodNites--and that was the end of it. He never wet again.

So when this came up with my next child I just let him be--and he outgrew it on his own at a younger age.

When I say we have enough things to worry about, I don't mean to ignore something serious because we're overwhelmed--I mean why make a mountain out of a molehill? If your child reaches the age of 11 or 12 and this is still going on, maybe then you need to do something about it. But in a 7 year old I wouldn't even give it a second thought. And I think that if the parents don't make a big deal about it and tell the child that a lot of kids have this, the child won't be upset about it either. (For the poster whose child was dry for 2 1/2 years and then started wetting--that is a different situation and does need to addressed.)
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amother




Pink
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:52 pm
Every parent is different. Some parents are aghast that I’m not taking my 14 month old non walking baby to therapy, I’m more than happy to let him develop at his own rate. But I personally wouldn’t have that (laid back) attitude about a bed wetter.
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 12:59 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Anxiety and enuresis share common root causes but I don’t believe one causes the other. Even with an Alf and constitutional hp she can still be having autonomic dysfunction. Honestly I would look into neuroinflammation as a source of the dysfunction. Treating chronic strep, going gluten and dairy free, high dose magnesium and high dose vit b1 in the form of lipotiamine has gone a long way towards helping us eliminate enuresis because we lowered inflammation and supported the autonomic nervous system nutritionally. Incidentally these treatments help us a ton with anxiety and fight flight as well. We are currently also pursuing constitutional hp and myofunctional therapy but these are very long term goals. Healing chronic illness is like peeling back layers of an onion, there are so many intertwining factors, you can’t stop at just 1 or 2. Even though each on their own promises to cure all your ills Wink


Can you please post what brands you get for:
high dose magnesium
high dose vit b1 in the form of lipotiamine

thank you!

also- when you say dairy free and gluten free do you mean completely eliminating? We don't have in our house but its so hard to control outside of the house, birthday parties etc. I don't want her feeling deprived, I also want her feeling good. its such a fine balance
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 1:02 pm
amother [ Hyacinth ] wrote:
Quote:
I think this is an outlook. I’m overwhlemed yes- but if I know something can help my child, is it responsible for me to be oblivious to that?

Im not trying to sound vindictive here. Bed wetting in later years causes emotional issues (if that’s not the root cause of them) sleepovers, sleep away camps. Yes making a big deal of it at home can be damaging but more damaging is other kids making fun of it. Or are we past that because it’s so much more common now?


My children don't start sleepovers and sleepaway camp before the age when they stopped wetting--but in any case, they could wear a GoodNite and nobody would be the wiser, as long as they dispose of it appropriately. I remember my son telling me he noticed GoodNites when he visited friends, so he knew he was in good company (even though they didn't discuss it).

With my first child who had this I tried different things, but they weren't that helpful. He was a deep sleeper so he slept though the alarm when we tried it (I heard it has to wake up the parent, who wakes up the child to take them to the bathroom). When we tried taking him to the bathroom before we went to bed he would collapse on the floor in front of the toilet because he was so fast asleep. We just gave up and stopped making a big deal about it, and ultimately he just stopped on his own--I mean he went from waking up every morning with a sopping GoodNite to waking up completely dry--pretty much overnight (shortly before his 10th birthday). I told him once he was dry every night for 2 weeks he could stop wearing GoodNites--and that was the end of it. He never wet again.

So when this came up with my next child I just let him be--and he outgrew it on his own at a younger age.

When I say we have enough things to worry about, I don't mean to ignore something serious because we're overwhelmed--I mean why make a mountain out of a molehill? If your child reaches the age of 11 or 12 and this is still going on, maybe then you need to do something about it. But in a 7 year old I wouldn't even give it a second thought. And I think that if the parents don't make a big deal about it and tell the child that a lot of kids have this, the child won't be upset about it either. (For the poster whose child was dry for 2 1/2 years and then started wetting--that is a different situation and does need to addressed.)


when you add up all the pieces of sleep disordered breathing, poor nursing can't latch, tongue tie, lip tie, reflux, colicky, mouth breathing etc you start to see all the connections, you realize that these are not isolated issues and are all part of a bigger picture. I am a deep sleeper, but I know now in my age that really means that I get poor quality sleep and never enter REM. I'm working on it and will get a functional appliance soon, but outgrowing something that is a compensation and forming other new compensations is so intertwined. I'm sorry to sound so repetitive but I think its just the outlook. and yes sometimes I do wish I didn't know as much as I do because it is easier to just ignore these issues and look at them as isolated
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 2:05 pm
amother1223 wrote:
Can you please post what brands you get for:
high dose magnesium
high dose vit b1 in the form of lipotiamine

thank you!

also- when you say dairy free and gluten free do you mean completely eliminating? We don't have in our house but its so hard to control outside of the house, birthday parties etc. I don't want her feeling deprived, I also want her feeling good. its such a fine balance

Yes, we eliminated gluten and dairy completely. It was a heart wrenching decision that is still extremely difficult to stick with and I second guess myself almost every day. I did decide at one point to turn a blind eye to infractions that were happening outside the house, but continue to make it my business to supply satisfactory alternatives at every occasion. We recently introduced limited dairy back in with a lot of digestive support. I completely understand that this isn’t doable for everyone and don’t judge anyone who can’t follow through. We also had/have a lot more going on than just enuresis, but it seems you do to..

For oral magnesium we use cardiovascular research mag taurate, NOW mag threonate (only form proven to cross the bbb) and seeking health mag malate. We also use magnesium chloride flakes and magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) in footsoaks for transdermal magnesium.

Lipothiamine there is only 1 brand that makes it afaik, ecological formulas/cardiovascular research. We give it along with Thorne basic methyl b complex for cofactors.

In all honesty though, I believe treating strep was the biggest piece. Infections by far contribute the most to total inflammatory load, put a ton of stress on the ANS and deplete essential nervous system nutrients.
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amother




Nemesia
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 2:31 pm
Im almost 40. I had siblings who wet the bed until 10/11 and I have siblings in law the same.
I have children who are in Good Nites until 12 or so (beginning puberty) and then literally overnight it stopped.
The difference is that 30/40 years ago, kids were shamed, teased. They had to wear adult diapers or just soak through and have frustrated parents dealing with linen and pajamas and ruined mattresses.
Nowadays, we have discreet pull-up options available.
And there's an awareness not to shame, not to blame. That it's not about "trying harder".
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 3:13 pm
Thanks everyone for weighing in.

I will discuss it with the doctor the next time I go. I just wondered gow normal this is, and sounds like many of you think it's very normal.

A few comments:
This is not my first child. He is #5. My two older sons were out of pull-ups by 3 or 4 (as far as I remember. My girls were raised by night at the same time as day. ) That is why I was wondering.

My husband has hinted that bed wetting was a problem for him or maybe it ran in his family, and he is not at all concerned.

I wonder how much is just normal development and how much is a lack of motivation. As I said, my younger son is very motivated to go dry, but he is not. (Which strikes me as odd, since this 7 year old is the type that wanted to wear a suit and tie, and black yarmulka since he was 4. He always wants to be big..)

Jade, I barely understood much of what you said but it sounds like you know a lot. What do you consider a "normal" age to be dry at night?
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 3:20 pm
amother1223 wrote:
My question on this topic(I’m dealing with a 7 year old whose bed wetting as well) is when did it become normal? I don’t think it was “normal” when I was growing up..I’m 34. Maybe it was “common” then but I don’t believe it was “normal”. There were no pull ups then.

I do believe it can be a host of things and if the childs been trained to go in pullups at night versus your 4 year old who wears underwear I think that’s a factor too. But I’m just so curious when it became normal?


Lol. I’m 35 and there were definitely pull-ups and I know people my age who wet till 8 or 10 and it was normal.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 3:27 pm
amother1223 wrote:
I think this is an outlook. I’m overwhlemed yes- but if I know something can help my child, is it responsible for me to be oblivious to that?

Im not trying to sound vindictive here. Bed wetting in later years causes emotional issues (if that’s not the root cause of them) sleepovers, sleep away camps. Yes making a big deal of it at home can be damaging but more damaging is other kids making fun of it. Or are we past that because it’s so much more common now?


Who’s talking about sleep away camp? We are talking about 7 year olds...
Yes, if an 11 year old wants to go to sleep away camp you need to do something about it. But the majority of kids stop completely by age 10 with not even one drop of intervention .
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amother




Papayawhip
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 3:33 pm
I'm in my mid-30s and wet the bed a lot as a kid. It wasn't called "not night trained at age X," it was called "wet the bed at age X." Same difference.

I still remember waking up soaking wet. It was awful. My mother (who was a loving, wonderful mother in so many ways) would make me change my own sheets and throw them in the washing machine. No one made fun of me, but I hated every second of it and really felt that if I just "tried harder" I could do it. But I couldn't. I was tired and it was gross and stinky and embarassing, even though no one knew.

I dont' know how old I was when it stopped. Probably at least 10. I wish I'd had Goodnights then.

I have one kid who night trained at age 7.5. The others all trained younger -- one at 3, one at 5, and the others are younger than 7.5 and haven't night trained yet. And that's okay.

It's not motivation. No kid that age wants to wake up wet. That's true for a 2 or 3 year old maybe, who would have no intrinsic desire to stay dry. But if a 7 year old doesn't voice a desire to stay dry, it's because he knows he has no way of making it happen, so why say he wants it?
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amother1223




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 5:24 pm
I’m curious how many of the kids who bed wet last 7 or 8 have gone cold turkey at night with no diapers at the age they were potty trained and how many went immediately to pull ups
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amother




Nemesia
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 5:42 pm
amother1223 wrote:
I’m curious how many of the kids who bed wet last 7 or 8 have gone cold turkey at night with no diapers at the age they were potty trained and how many went immediately to pull ups


I used to believe like you.
My first 3, I potty trained at night and day together- no pull-ups or diapers.
They all were daytime trained within a week or two. At night, 1 was able to stay dry with an occasional accident (once a week or so). The other 2 were not able to do it.
They were never able to stay dry, even with being brought to the bathroom at 11pm.
After 3 months or so, I relented and did pullups. And I regret tremendously. The level of failure, feeling like if they only tried harder really hurt their self-esteem.
One stayed dry at 9, one at 11 1/2. It was literally overnight. Their brains became capable and that was it.
After that, I stopped pushing night training ever. They will stay dry when they're able to. It's not about wanting.
My siblings and husband's siblings both wet the bed until past 7/8 so it's genetic.
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