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7 year old still not toilet trained at night.
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amother




Tealblue
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 8:15 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
Who’s talking about sleep away camp? We are talking about 7 year olds...
Yes, if an 11 year old wants to go to sleep away camp you need to do something about it. But the majority of kids stop completely by age 10 with not even one drop of intervention .

My husband was a כתה ח׳ counselor for years and had quite a few campers who needed pull-ups at night and the occasional but more frequent linen change. It was all done very matter of factly- no big deal set up.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 8:44 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks everyone for weighing in.

I will discuss it with the doctor the next time I go. I just wondered gow normal this is, and sounds like many of you think it's very normal.

A few comments:
This is not my first child. He is #5. My two older sons were out of pull-ups by 3 or 4 (as far as I remember. My girls were raised by night at the same time as day. ) That is why I was wondering.

My husband has hinted that bed wetting was a problem for him or maybe it ran in his family, and he is not at all concerned.

I wonder how much is just normal development and how much is a lack of motivation. As I said, my younger son is very motivated to go dry, but he is not. (Which strikes me as odd, since this 7 year old is the type that wanted to wear a suit and tie, and black yarmulka since he was 4. He always wants to be big..)

Jade, I barely understood much of what you said but it sounds like you know a lot. What do you consider a "normal" age to be dry at night?
The medical establishment considers it enuresis after age 5. I would say even that is pushing it, high end of normal. But more than a number it really depends on what else the kid has going on. Very often bed wetting is only part of the picture. I think you said in your op your kid is adhd-ish? Or maybe it was another similar thread (Botox for bladder?). In that case, the problem wouldn’t be just age and enuresis, but the larger picture of neurological imbalance that you would want to address.
My husband was also a bed wetter, so there’s a genetic piece for us as well. He did outgrow that on his own. But he also has undiagnosed
Adhd and that didn’t go away, and it’s taken a toll on our marriage so...
Hope this helps.

Re: common and normal, unfortunately in today’s day and age, because our lifestyle is so out of sync with how our bodies are wired, we can’t rely on common-ness to determine what’s normal. The rates of chronic illness is skyrocketing all around, but none of it is normal.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 9:50 pm
One more thing to look into with enuresis is retained primitive reflexes. The spinal galant reflex is associated with bladder control.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post Thu, Dec 02 2021, 10:31 pm
amother1223 wrote:
My daughter is in an ALF and still having accidents 1-2 times a week. If I wake her she does not. We’re trying classical homeopathy now and it’s helping with other anxiety issues but I do believe with her specifically this is anxiety ridden. She only started after corona hit and from 2.5-5 years old was completely dry at night.

She had tt revised at 5. Didn’t see a difference

Anyone do pelvic floor PT? I really don’t want to subject her to it but curious if anyone had results. Also biofeedback or neurofeedback

Try craniosacral therapy. It helped my son and in general it compliments homeopathy beautifully
I also agree that low levels of strep in the body contribute.
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losingweight




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Dec 03 2021, 2:01 am
amother [ Taupe ] wrote:
What dosage was prescribed for DDAVP? My 10 year old son started at 0.1 mg dose. We are increasing it slowly, but 0.3mg is still not doing the trick.


It was a quite a few years back. We started with three pills. Eventually weaned till 1 was doing the job. Later we switched to nasal spray. Two sprays in each nostril and weaned to just one spray in one nostril till the child weaned completely. There were no accidents when we used the DDAVP
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play doe




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 2:14 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
One more thing to look into with enuresis is retained primitive reflexes. The spinal galant reflex is associated with bladder control.


Yes, poor reflex integration is responsible for a host of common issues. Get an OT who is knowledgeable in the specific exercises for spinal galant. They will evaluate for a prominent spinal galant, then you will learn the exercises he needs to do every day. They are not complicated or tedious at all, and if done for ten minutes daily, he might stop bed wetting within a few months. It's happened to many, including teens.
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amother




Holly
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 9:45 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Vasopressin is the hormone triggered by the hypothalamus and produced by the pituitary (the autonomic nervous system) that is supposed to tell the kidneys at night to stop producing so much urine and hold it in. Bed wetting past a certain age is a sign of dysfunction along that axis. It can be caused by adrenal and cortisol issues (the adrenals send messages to the hypothalamus) blood sugar issues, nutritional deficiencies of nutrients that those brain structures need to do their jobs and make these hormones (more common than you think), inflammation to the hpa axis caused by infections, mold, allergies, leaky gut and so on. Mouth breathing at night and airway issues (tonsils, adenoids, tongue tie, high narrow palate, low oral muscle tone) doesn’t allow the body to enter REM and then the pituitary never gets the message to ramp up vasopressin production. Mainstream drs have no idea how to look for any of these things, but functional mds can.



Tell me more about this, my kid has PANS. I've noticed she's sopping thru her sheets (with a pullup) at times when she flares.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 9:50 am
amother [ Holly ] wrote:
Tell me more about this, my kid has PANS. I've noticed she's sopping thru her sheets (with a pullup) at times when she flares.
Urinary symptoms are very common with pans, there are a lot of different theories for why it happens. But if you go with the hypothesis that the illness/autoimmunity is stressing the autonomic nervous system and depleting nutrients, the way to support that is obviously treating the cause of the flare and inflammation, but also high doses of magnesium, high doses of vitamin b1 several times a day, and a b complex.
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amother




Holly
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 10:09 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Urinary symptoms are very common with pans, there are a lot of different theories for why it happens. But if you go with the hypothesis that the illness/autoimmunity is stressing the autonomic nervous system and depleting nutrients, the way to support that is obviously treating the cause of the flare and inflammation, but also high doses of magnesium, high doses of vitamin b1 several times a day, and a b complex.


I know it's common. She's 8. We've had a heck of a time toilet training her at 3. All schools/playgroups for 3 yo in the area only accept potty trained kids. And at 3, not potty trained she was by far the oldest kid in her playgroup.

My other kid was day and night trained by 2.5 all at once. Barely ac accident in the years since. Same with my younger kids. But she's still in pullups.

We don't make a big deal about it. She knows her multiplication, she's tall. Her sister is learning addition now, and her sister isn't tall. She has brown hair, her brother blonde. She sleeps with a pullup they don't. Simple as that.
But I know she's a bit grossed out by it. She wipes down in the morning, take baths more often and I change her linen more often.


How do you get an 8 yo to take vitamins. It's a huge struggle.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 11:04 am
amother [ Holly ] wrote:
I know it's common. She's 8. We've had a heck of a time toilet training her at 3. All schools/playgroups for 3 yo in the area only accept potty trained kids. And at 3, not potty trained she was by far the oldest kid in her playgroup.

My other kid was day and night trained by 2.5 all at once. Barely ac accident in the years since. Same with my younger kids. But she's still in pullups.

We don't make a big deal about it. She knows her multiplication, she's tall. Her sister is learning addition now, and her sister isn't tall. She has brown hair, her brother blonde. She sleeps with a pullup they don't. Simple as that.
But I know she's a bit grossed out by it. She wipes down in the morning, take baths more often and I change her linen more often.


How do you get an 8 yo to take vitamins. It's a huge struggle.
I teach my kids to swallow pills at 5. It’s a big deal and they balk, but I am no nonsense about it, they need it for their health. Pans kids are sick. I also bribe them, they get prizes every week for taking their vitamins nicely. If you absolutely must, there are ways to get around them swallowing pills. You can get magnesium chewables, and also do magnesium footsoaks for transdermal magnesium. The b1 pill is tiny, super easy to swallow, but if you must you can crush and hide in applesauce, non dairy ice cream, chocolate syrup. There are good quality liquid b complexes out there.
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creditcards




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 5:28 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
I teach my kids to swallow pills at 5. It’s a big deal and they balk, but I am no nonsense about it, they need it for their health. Pans kids are sick. I also bribe them, they get prizes every week for taking their vitamins nicely. If you absolutely must, there are ways to get around them swallowing pills. You can get magnesium chewables, and also do magnesium footsoaks for transdermal magnesium. The b1 pill is tiny, super easy to swallow, but if you must you can crush and hide in applesauce, non dairy ice cream, chocolate syrup. There are good quality liquid b complexes out there.


My daughter needs to swallow pills every day. I taught her by giving her a chocolate chip and told her to try to swallow it without chewing it. After a few tries she got it and then I told her, ok now you can swallow pills. She was all excited about it.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:42 pm
play doe wrote:
Yes, poor reflex integration is responsible for a host of common issues. Get an OT who is knowledgeable in the specific exercises for spinal galant. They will evaluate for a prominent spinal galant, then you will learn the exercises he needs to do every day. They are not complicated or tedious at all, and if done for ten minutes daily, he might stop bed wetting within a few months. It's happened to many, including teens.


How would I find such an ot?
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amother




Orchid
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:42 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Urinary symptoms are very common with pans, there are a lot of different theories for why it happens. But if you go with the hypothesis that the illness/autoimmunity is stressing the autonomic nervous system and depleting nutrients, the way to support that is obviously treating the cause of the flare and inflammation, but also high doses of magnesium, high doses of vitamin b1 several times a day, and a b complex.


How do u know how much of these vitamins to give?
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amother




Jade
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 7:01 pm
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
How do u know how much of these vitamins to give?
There are some basic guidelines to follow. For magnesium it’s 5mg per lb of body weight. For b vitamins I give half an adult dose, but they’re water soluble so I’m not worried about over dosing. For that same reason, I’d rather split the dose over several times per day especially during flares, so more is absorbed.
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play doe




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 7:51 pm
amother [ Orchid ] wrote:
How would I find such an ot?


Call OTs in your area and ask. It can be paid through insurance, DOE if it's given in your place of residence, or private pay, of course.
In Flatbush, Esti Spitzer is one such OT.
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amother




Orchid
 

Post Thu, Dec 09 2021, 11:19 am
play doe wrote:
Call OTs in your area and ask. It can be paid through insurance, DOE if it's given in your place of residence, or private pay, of course.
In Flatbush, Esti Spitzer is one such OT.


Do you have her contact info?

Also do you know of such an OT in BP?

I need someone really good.
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