Name to go with Zalman

amother

Yellow

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:06 am

amother [ PlumPink ] wrote:

also never heard of Zelig with Yitzchok. Are you sure these aren’t just common combinations in your circle? Asher and Zelig have basically the same meaning. As do Tzvi and Hersh. Aryeh and Leib. Dov and Berrel. But Zelig and Yitzchok? Zalman and Yekusiel ? I don’t get it.

Zelig has to do with laughing/smile and Yitzchok laughed so some people use them. Berel is for Dov and also Yisacher. We are used to the names that revert back to only one name like Tzvi to Hersh, Naftali to Hertzke, Dov to Ber, Aryeh and Yehuda to Leib, or even Elyakim to Getzil although some other names go with Elyakim too.
Some names like Zalman are associated with many names as I brought the sefer link for, the most common one where I am is Yekusiel but it also lists Elazar, Shlomo, Shneur, and others I listed above. Other names associated with multiple names are Zusman and Zisha which can both come with Meshulem, Eliezer, Yekusiel, Alexander and probably more I haven't heard of. But they aren't names on their own, they are paired. That's why OP needs to discuss with a Rav and not just add any name to Zalman. It's likely the Zalman she wants to name after was named Yekusiel or Shneur or one of the other names associated with Zalman and Zalman was the nickname.
If someone has more questions, you ask someone who deals with gitten as they specialize in names.

amother

PlumPink

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:12 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Yissachar and Dov don’t mean the same thing. They only go together because of gedolim having had the name. Like the Belzer Rebbe. They don’t naturally have the same meaning or go together

Tof Umachol

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:29 am

amother [ PlumPink ] wrote:

Yissachar and Dov don’t mean the same thing. They only go together because of gedolim having had the name. Like the Belzer Rebbe. They don’t naturally have the same meaning or go together

Actually, Yissachar and Dov do go together -
in Yaakov's brachot to the shvatim, he compares Yissachar to a donkey
יששכר חמור גרם
I learned that in Europe when Jews wanted to add a name to Yissachar, they felt that donkey (Chamor) had negative connotations, so they chose a bear (Dov) as a comparable alternative. The bear was seen as strong, even majestic, in Eastern Europe.
Similarly you find Naftali Tzvi (or Naftali Tzvi Hirsch), because in the brachot it says
נפתלי אילה שלוחה
so instead of using Naftali Ayala (gazelle), which was too feminine, they used the masculine Tzvi (deer).

amother

Cornsilk

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:59 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

You still haven't explained what the link between Zalman and Yekutiel is.

For the record, I know one boy who was named Shlomo Zalman at his bris, and was called to the Torah by that name at his Bar Mitzvah. I also know two Yekutiels who were named Yekutiel and use that name on a daily and halachic basis.

Without knowing the OP, I don't think it so advisable to tell her that the Zalman she wishes to name her son after probably had a different name.

amother

Yellow

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 4:55 pm

Tof Umachol wrote:

Naftuli is usually with Hertzke. And you can be Yisachar without the Dov and still called Berel. There are Yisacher Dov's, Yisacher Ber's and Yisacher's alone called Ber and Dov's alone called Ber.

amother

Yellow

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 4:56 pm

amother [ Cornsilk ] wrote:

I told her she should speak to a Rav. I also posted a link from a sefer on names that lists names that Zalman is a nickname/associated with: see quoted post below. She should speak to a Rav.

https://he.m.wikisource.org/wi.....D7%9D
זלמן כינוי לאלעזר לאפרים ליקותיאל למשלם לשלמה לאליקום לשמרי' לשניאור

So Op, it seems according to this sefer that the names Zalman goes with are Elazar, Efraim, Yekusiel, Meshulem, Shlomo, Elyakim, Shmarya/hu, and Shneur, but like I said, discuss with a Rav. Ones who handle gitten are the most familiar with names.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 5:00 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you so much! This is really informative!

We already have a son named Aryeh so anything with Leib is out and another son named Moshe (but those names both sound nice with Zalman)

Does Zalman Yekusiel go together?

I have a family member yekusiel zalman

imaima

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 5:38 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

The very fact that she should speak to a rav shows that it is a tradition of a certain community.

Many orthodox rabbis hold that you don't need to speak to a rav to name a child.
And Zalman would go with absolutely any name

amother

Yellow

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 6:39 pm

imaima wrote:

I'm saying she should speak to a Rav because it is possible Zalman is not a name in and of itself and needs to be paired with another name. An example would be Ber or Hersh or Leib. These are not names themselves they are always paired with a name like Tzvi so someone Hersh can be named Tzvi Hersh or just Tzvi; but when he is named Hersh itself it is a mistake. That is why she should ask a Rav about her particular circumstance to determine what she should do. Not because she should get his input if the name is a good idea or not but because she needs to ask if it can be given this way.

Another example would be let's say the name Ricky is a nickname for Rivka - if you wanted to give the name Ricky to your daughter as her official name and not nickname it would be a good idea to speak to your Rav and ask if you should name her Rivka and use the nickname Rickya or if you should just name her officially with the nickname Ricky. And maybe the grandmother Ricky was really named Rikel and not even Rivka so it would make sense to want to find out what her name was.

Either way, OP does not need to speak to a Rav. I just suggested it so she could get more clarity on this. And speaking to someone who deals with gitten could be very imformative. Obviously, anyone can name their child what they want and if OP wants to name her child Reuven Zalman or Zalman Chaim that is fine too.

amother

Black

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 9:49 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Isn't Shneur Zalman a Lubavitcher name?

Yes but when naming in Chabad we use Shneur Zalman at the Torah. There isn't a different name given (like Yekusiel) and Zalman used as a nickname. So I definitely think you can give the name Zalman at the Torah.

amother

Yellow

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:00 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

To clarify in case others were confused: I didn't say Zalman isn't given at the Torah. I said it is given at the Torah in combination with specific names. Sometimes it is not given at the Torah and is a nickname for specific names.
I don't think it is generally given at the Torah by itself not in combination with specific names, or given with random names. That's why I recommended OP consult a rav or someone who handles gitten they will know.

imaima

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 10:40 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Ehm no
I had a relative whose name was Zalman period.

amother

Chicory

Mon, Dec 06 2021, 11:07 pm

My son is Zalman (no other names added). We are not chasidish. He's the 1st grandson named after my husband's grandfather. I didn't love the name, but also makpid to not add names when naming after someone. So we came to the agreement that we'd call him by a nickname. He's in his late teens and still goes by the nickname Zollie. Other than a select few relatives and a few rabbaim in school, nobody calls him Zalman.