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Need to ask a shaila about getting induced- who to ask?
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oneofakind




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 3:29 pm
Don't call Bais HoRaa and speak to someone you don't know is experienced.
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amother




Dill
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 3:29 pm
Rabbi Moshe Zev Feldman
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amother




Pear
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 9:00 pm
amother [ Dill ] wrote:
Rabbi Moshe Zev Feldman

It was suggested that I go to him cuz he is very experienced...
My personal experience. Dr wanted to induce for multiple reasons, age, terrible back pain that I was laid up for weeks, terrible anxiety cuz pregnancy after late miscarriage.
Rav said no halachic reason to induce.
But every situation is different.
I have been given the ok for induction a few times when was really medically necessary.
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amother




Mauve
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 9:16 pm
Do you have a childhood rav you could ask? My father is a "community" rav and he gets lots of shailos like this from people who grew up in his community and don't have their own rav now that they're married. He is always happy to talk with them
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amother




Antiquewhite
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 9:24 pm
amother [ Pear ] wrote:
It was suggested that I go to him cuz he is very experienced...
My personal experience. Dr wanted to induce for multiple reasons, age, terrible back pain that I was laid up for weeks, terrible anxiety cuz pregnancy after late miscarriage.
Rav said no halachic reason to induce.
But every situation is different.
I have been given the ok for induction a few times when was really medically necessary.


I had stillbirth in my ninth month. Following pregnancy Dr didn't want me going too far along in my ninth and wanted to do induction. Rav did take into account my anxiety as he said that is part of maternal health. Plus I was on various medications to help keep the pregnancy and Dr wanted to time it right when I should get off of it for delivery so I wouldn't end up with hemorraging. I was allowed to induce and Rav felt it was medically necessary.
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amother




Aster
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 9:33 pm
amother [ Hibiscus ] wrote:
No, because inducing is a very serious shaila, even for medical reason. Our dayan (chassidish) never allowed it for me, even when I had leaking waters for several days. But my doctor was always accomodating. People need a rav and doctor who know their circumstances.

Hatzlacha, OP.

This is horrific.
If Ch'v something would have happened to your baby, like an infection which is very common when waters break early, your rav would be liable.
I strongly hope that you're not using this dayan anymore.
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amother




Hibiscus
 

Post Tue, Dec 07 2021, 9:45 pm
amother [ Aster ] wrote:
This is horrific.
If Ch'v something would have happened to your baby, like an infection which is very common when waters break early, your rav would be liable.
I strongly hope that you're not using this dayan anymore.


Well my top doctor worked along. I was on antibiotics and having my blood taken daily. I had it with three of my births, so not all of them. One was a few days, another about a week and another around 2 weeks. BH it was fine.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 8:42 am
I was told when they wanted to induce me that because giving birth is considered 'sakana', dangerous, we don't deliberately put ourselves in danger, so you shouldn't induce unless medically required. Mine was an issue with growth and our rav said if the dr says she felt it necessary, then you follow what the dr says.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 9:49 am
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
I was told when they wanted to induce me that because giving birth is considered 'sakana', dangerous, we don't deliberately put ourselves in danger, so you shouldn't induce unless medically required. Mine was an issue with growth and our rav said if the dr says she felt it necessary, then you follow what the dr says.


Like I said, I want to ask but I really wish this wasn’t a shaila. People could disagree but the possibility of me having a baby on the way to the hospital feels like a sakanah to me and having a place set up for my child makes sense.
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amother




Foxglove
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 1:33 pm
Slightly off topic but I heard a cute story recently. Someone had asked a sheila to induce and the rav asked to speak to the doctor. The (non jewish) doctor asked the couple, which rav? And then proceeded to dial his number from her contacts...
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 1:44 pm
amother [ Foxglove ] wrote:
Slightly off topic but I heard a cute story recently. Someone had asked a sheila to induce and the rav asked to speak to the doctor. The (non jewish) doctor asked the couple, which rav? And then proceeded to dial his number from her contacts...


More than 15 years ago, when I was expecting my first, the dr asked me around my 6th month "who's your Rabbi? Gissinger Forcheimer or Katz? I want to put it in your record".
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amother




Starflower
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 1:58 pm
FYI, the posted saying that her chassidish rav never allows induction, is NOT the norm, even with chassidish rabbanim! I'm imagining this leading to some more chassid bashing, and it really isn't regular!
My (Belz; ultra chassidish) Rav always asked if doctor is jewish/knows about our beliefs in inductions, and as soon as I confirmed that doctor was Frum, or that my other doctor is familiar with the way we do things, said to go ahead with whatever doctor feels necessary.
In my case, I was cleared for induction due to precipitous labor, even once when I was 5 days early but open 5cm, to avoid taking the chance of delivering in the car. In that case I did make sure Rav knew why I was being induced. With my second, I was using a frum doctor who wanted me induced 2 days overdue because of my history of preeclampsia/toxemia. Rav then didn't ask any details. He just said if a frum doctor wants to induce me for medical reasons, go right ahead with it.
I will say that when I told that to my Dr, she was so happy to hear that, she wanted to call my rav and thank him personally. She said "you have no idea how many times I have patients putting themselves in danger, because the Rav doesn't really get what's going on." She sometimes gets the phone number of the Rav and talks to him, when she feels it's really important, and generally gets clearance for patient.
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amother




Hibiscus
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 1:59 pm
amother [ Starflower ] wrote:
FYI, the posted saying that her chassidish rav never allows induction, is NOT the norm, even with chassidish rabbanim! I'm imagining this leading to some more chassid bashing, and it really isn't regular!
My (Belz; ultra chassidish) Rav always asked if doctor is jewish/knows about our beliefs in inductions, and as soon as I confirmed that doctor was Frum, or that my other doctor is familiar with the way we do things, said to go ahead with whatever doctor feels necessary.
In my case, I was cleared for induction due to precipitous labor, even once when I was 5 days early but open 5cm, to avoid taking the chance of delivering in the car. In that case I did make sure Rav knew why I was being induced. With my second, I was using a frum doctor who wanted me induced 2 days overdue because of my history of preeclampsia/toxemia. Rav then didn't ask any details. He just said if a frum doctor wants to induce me for medical reasons, go right ahead with it.
I will say that when I told that to my Dr, she was so happy to hear that, she wanted to call my rav and thank him personally. She said "you have no idea how many times I have patients putting themselves in danger, because the Rav doesn't really get what's going on." She sometimes gets the phone number of the Rav and talks to him, when she feels it's really important, and generally gets clearance for patient.



Of course many chassidishe rabonim allow it. Some want it to be a more serious situation. There are all kinds. Sorry if that wasn't clear. But it is a shaila. I really feel for OP and I hope she found the right dayan to ask.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 3:18 pm
amother [ Starflower ] wrote:
FYI, the posted saying that her chassidish rav never allows induction, is NOT the norm, even with chassidish rabbanim! I'm imagining this leading to some more chassid bashing, and it really isn't regular!
My (Belz; ultra chassidish) Rav always asked if doctor is jewish/knows about our beliefs in inductions, and as soon as I confirmed that doctor was Frum, or that my other doctor is familiar with the way we do things, said to go ahead with whatever doctor feels necessary.
In my case, I was cleared for induction due to precipitous labor, even once when I was 5 days early but open 5cm, to avoid taking the chance of delivering in the car. In that case I did make sure Rav knew why I was being induced. With my second, I was using a frum doctor who wanted me induced 2 days overdue because of my history of preeclampsia/toxemia. Rav then didn't ask any details. He just said if a frum doctor wants to induce me for medical reasons, go right ahead with it.
I will say that when I told that to my Dr, she was so happy to hear that, she wanted to call my rav and thank him personally. She said "you have no idea how many times I have patients putting themselves in danger, because the Rav doesn't really get what's going on." She sometimes gets the phone number of the Rav and talks to him, when she feels it's really important, and generally gets clearance for patient.


Thank you for the clarification. I'm glad to hear it is an outlier (or one I'm sure well-meaning but incompetent individual) and not a mainstream chassidish approach to go against the medical advice, I found her psak pretty shocking given the details of the situation.

I appreciate you taking the time to educate.
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amother




Electricblue
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 3:43 pm
If Dr sais it's a medical emergency you call a Rabbi? Why?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 3:52 pm
amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:
If Dr sais it's a medical emergency you call a Rabbi? Why?


Because it’s not a medical emergency.
I’m eligible to be induced a week early due to my very fast labors and because of my home situation and anxiety about the birth, I really would like to.

Also- it’s really hard to get through to the rabbonim posted above.
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amother




DarkViolet
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:18 pm
Rabbi forsheimer allowed me to be induced, he said there is also mental sanity that has to be taken into consideration. I was having sssssllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww labor for two weeks and I was losing my mind.
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amother




Antiquewhite
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:24 pm
amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote:
Rabbi forsheimer allowed me to be induced, he said there is also mental sanity that has to be taken into consideration. I was having sssssllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww labor for two weeks and I was losing my mind.


Thank you for saying this. I posted my situation earlier. Usually my rav says if you are going to be induced no later than Wednesday in the week to avoid chillul shabbos. But this time around due to different higher risk factors than last time, my rav said whenever I want to be induced is fine. Even if the choice of days is just based on which doctor I want because I will feel safer, (high risk delivery possibility of C-section) than I can go in whenever. Rav said mental health of mom very important. This is the same rav in my earlier pregnancies, back when I was low risk would not advise induction just because Dr wanted to go on vacation or because I reached my due date but there were no other risk factors.

Precipitous labor is absolutely a concern! You want to make it to the hospital.
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amother




Clear
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:41 pm
Never knew it’s a Sheila. I just had my first and my water broke so they induced me. End of story. Why would I ask?
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amother




Antiquewhite
 

Post Wed, Dec 08 2021, 6:46 pm
amother [ Clear ] wrote:
Never knew it’s a Sheila. I just had my first and my water broke so they induced me. End of story. Why would I ask?


That's a good reason to get induced. You are not supposed to get induced for convenience with no medical concern. Op has a real medical concern.
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