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Don't Trust Pfizer
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amother
Wandflower


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 6:05 am
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
False. Four out of 5 people now dying of covid are vaccinated.


Source?
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 6:15 am
I'm genuinely shocked at the stupidity of this thread.

You believe in vaccines? Cool. There is significant data to back you up. Not debating that.

But to make fun of people who don't trust Pfizer? PFIZER??? For real?

They are the most corrupt money making liars on the planet right now. Yes they have a good product on the market right now but they have a long history of lies, lawsuits, fraud, and controversy. I wouldn't trust them to keep a goldfish alive unless it benefits their bottom line.
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 6:47 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I'm genuinely shocked at the stupidity of this thread.

You believe in vaccines? Cool. There is significant data to back you up. Not debating that.

But to make fun of people who don't trust Pfizer? PFIZER??? For real?

They are the most corrupt money making liars on the planet right now. Yes they have a good product on the market right now but they have a long history of lies, lawsuits, fraud, and controversy. I wouldn't trust them to keep a goldfish alive unless it benefits their bottom line.


Well said. What a nasty thread. Most people don't think Pfizer has an agenda to conquer the world and kill people. They do, however, believe that Pfizer has a financial agenda, just like most big corporations who have the power and connections to push products onto the masses.
Regardless of your feelings on this specific vaccine, can we not make fun of people for having the right to make their own medical decisions? Are you aware that this causes a divisiveness that is far more dangerous than taking a vaccine or not?
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amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 6:52 am
amother [ Skyblue ] wrote:
Wish I wouldn't have opened this thread.
Have a young healthy family member with a horrible condition since getting the vax. It's scary and painful and it's not a laughing matter.


I'm so sorry for you and your family. I find this thread terribly insensitive and hurtful. I'm going to report it now.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 7:00 am
Ladies , the op is supposed to be funny blaming every ailment on Pfizer. And it’s just as irritating as the other side blaming all ailments on covid. I’m not responsible for where it ends up and people foaming at the mouth every time covid or it’s vaccine is mentioned.

Also do you take Advil ?
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 7:07 am
fleetwood wrote:
Yes..bec more time has passed since the vaccine then before the vaccine. For example..9 months of covid before vaxx. 13 months of covid post vaxx..stands to reason there are more deaths. In fact..I venture to guess a year from now there will be more covid deaths than before the vaxx ,just by it being a longer stretch of time ..



Im pro vaccine and I'm double vaccinated. But the question is a good question and bothers me. Your answer doesn't really help.


Let's discuss facts.

Covid started in the US in mid March 2020. In the next 9.5 months the were approximately 385,000 recorded deaths.
We reached the same number for recorded deaths in 2021 in mid November, which was 10.5 months into the year. So we did only slightly better with the vaccine as we went from 9.5 months to 10.5 months to record the same death total. Not that impressive.

What's more is that in 2020 things were worse because we were blindsided. Old and vulnerable people caught covid early on because they were taking zero precautions. Further, we have therapeutics in 2021 that weren't available in 2020. Does anyone have a good reason why the death totals really haven't improved with the vaccine in 2021? Thank you.
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amother
Crocus


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:13 am
Agree and sure does not help that monoclonal antibodies have not been stockpiled and made available everywhere.

Would certainly help far more than this focus on vaccine mandates one size fits all obsession.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:15 am
amother [Honeydew] wrote:

Im pro vaccine and I'm double vaccinated. But the question is a good question and bothers me. Your answer doesn't really help.


Let's discuss facts.

Covid started in the US in mid March 2020. In the next 9.5 months the were approximately 385,000 recorded deaths.
We reached the same number for recorded deaths in 2021 in mid November, which was 10.5 months into the year. So we did only slightly better with the vaccine as we went from 9.5 months to 10.5 months to record the same death total. Not that impressive.

What's more is that in 2020 things were worse because we were blindsided. Old and vulnerable people caught covid early on because they were taking zero precautions. Further, we have therapeutics in 2021 that weren't available in 2020. Does anyone have a good reason why the death totals really haven't improved with the vaccine in 2021? Thank you.



One reason is math.

The virus replicates exponentially, and hasn't disappeared.

If there weren't vaccines (plus immunity from those who had it and recovered), then deaths would also have increased exponentially, in line with the number of cases.

Add to that the fact that there are many more severe reactions and deaths in the population that couldn't or wouldn't vaccinate, and it readily answers you.


Last edited by imasinger on Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:17 am
Amarante wrote:
Deaths were almost exclusively among those who weren’t vaccinated. 🤫


Data please?

(And please, spare us the data that dates back to January 2020, when most weren't yet vaccinated- let's have CURRENT data please)


Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Melon


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:19 am
I generally don't trust products that don't work as touted. That included as seen on TV products as well as the Pfizer vaccine
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:21 am
gold21 wrote:
Data please?


https://ourworldindata.org/cov.....ation
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:28 am
Well do you agree or disagree with these statements?
Hug to disagree. Like to agree.

The vaccines will not be ushering in any herd immunity.

The vaccines are leaky.

Vaccinated people are still dying, more than die of flu. The unvaccinated also die of it too.

A vaccine must be improved if possible.

The old world may or may not ever return, we simply cannot predict it at this time.

There should be large consequences to those who made and leaked it from the lab, intentional or not.

Treatment must be improved significantly.

Some people always get the unusual damaging side effects of things. They should be cared for and heard.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 8:36 am
imasinger wrote:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination


That's a pretty cool chart.

I checked the U.S. chart.

I noticed that there is currently no difference in deaths between vaxxed 12-17 years olds and unvaxxed 12-17 year olds in the U.S.

Also, the difference in deaths between unvaxxed 18-29 year olds and vaxxed 18-29 year olds is not significant, and has never been been significant. Both are under 1 per 1000,000.

(So why do under-30 year olds need the vaccine again? Confused And moms panicking about their 5 year olds..... Really, girlfriend? Sad.)

Moving on to people who are 30+, where the vaccine appears to be more beneficial:

It seems that back in Spring 2021, when they were obsessively pushing the shots, the gap between unvaxxed deaths and vaxxed deaths was not significant.

Over the summer of 2021, unvaxxed deaths shot up exponentially while vaxxed deaths only shot up a little.

After the summer, things levelled off and unvaxxed deaths are currently at levels not much higher than vaxxed deaths.

That's how I'm reading the chart.

By the way, to what do you attribute the sudden steep decline in death rates among the unvaccinated between August and now? They were unvaxxed then and are unvaxxed now.


Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Dec 28 2021, 9:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 9:04 am
imasinger wrote:
One reason is math.

The virus replicates exponentially, and hasn't disappeared.

If there weren't vaccines (plus immunity from those who had it and recovered), then deaths would also have increased exponentially, in line with the number of cases.

Add to that the fact that there are many more severe reactions and deaths in the population that couldn't or wouldn't vaccinate, and it readily answers you.




Thank you for replying but I don't agree with this. The reason is because the virus isn't increasing exponentially in the way interest on money increases exponentially or human population as well. The virus clearly has peaks and valley's. So we have a surge for 2 months.....and then back down for a few months until another surge comes later.

Daily cases and deaths in April and May 2020 were higher than in Sept and Oct 2020. In 2021, Jan and Feb were higher than in May and June. So I can't contribute more deaths in 2021 to a natural exponential increase because that's clearly not what's happening. Very often the opposite is happening. Cases are higher and then lower a few months later.
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fleetwood




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 9:18 am
[quote="imasinger"]One reason is math.

The virus replicates exponentially, and hasn't disappeared.

If there weren't vaccines (plus immunity from those who had it and recovered), then deaths would also have increased exponentially, in line with the number of cases.

Add to that the fact that there are many more severe reactions and deaths in the population that couldn't or wouldn't vaccinate, and it readily answers you.[/quot




Thanks for explaining it better than I could.
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amother
Maize


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 9:28 am
[quote="fleetwood"]
imasinger wrote:
One reason is math.

The virus replicates exponentially, and hasn't disappeared.

If there weren't vaccines (plus immunity from those who had it and recovered), then deaths would also have increased exponentially, in line with the number of cases.

Add to that the fact that there are many more severe reactions and deaths in the population that couldn't or wouldn't vaccinate, and it readily answers you.[/quot




Thanks for explaining it better than I could.


Still doesn't make sense. How do you know more people would have died when the virus got milder? Also, vaccinated people are counted as unvaccinated within 2 weeks or if they didn't get the booster, so the count of the unvaccinated is not exactly honest either.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 11:22 am
Gold, I attribute that decline in death rates to a few things -- the availability of better treatments; the fact that the surges happen in the more highly populated parts of the country from Dec-April or so, and the fact that more unvaccinated have antibodies from having recovered from Covid at least once.

Honeydew, you're right that there are surges; still, we can learn from looking at the charts. If your opinion differs from mine, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. Smile

Maize, I was responding to a request to provide a logical reason to explain certain numbers. The supposition that the virus got milder could certainly factor in as well, but hasn't been confirmed.

And I'm not sure what your point was about those who were partially vaccinated (less than 2 weeks past 2 shots). The vaccine takes that long and that much to provide protection. Prior to that point, you just don't have that protection. It's kind of like saying, how could you say an unvaccinated person who chv"s died of Covid be marked as having died of Covid, because after all, they had antibodies in their system fighting the virus. There just weren't enough.
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cupcake123




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 11:35 am
causemommysaid wrote:
I'm genuinely shocked at the stupidity of this thread.

You believe in vaccines? Cool. There is significant data to back you up. Not debating that.

But to make fun of people who don't trust Pfizer? PFIZER??? For real?

They are the most corrupt money making liars on the planet right now. Yes they have a good product on the market right now but they have a long history of lies, lawsuits, fraud, and controversy. I wouldn't trust them to keep a goldfish alive unless it benefits their bottom line.


Well said !
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 1:43 pm
imasinger wrote:
One reason is math.

The virus replicates exponentially, and hasn't disappeared.

If there weren't vaccines (plus immunity from those who had it and recovered), then deaths would also have increased exponentially, in line with the number of cases.

Add to that the fact that there are many more severe reactions and deaths in the population that couldn't or wouldn't vaccinate, and it readily answers you.


Incorrect.

Even with NO VACCINE the death rate from Covid should have gone down dramatically
because:

1. The most vulnerable (Old, Sick) Died in the first year of Covid.

2. Millions of people got natural immunity after recovering.

The fact that the year after the vaccine had the same or more deaths implies
the vaccine may have caused harm. Certainly did not help any.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Tue, Dec 28 2021, 1:56 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Deaths in USA from Ivermectin .........ZERO

Deaths in USA from HCQ ..................ZERO

Deaths in USA from Covid Vaccines....20,000 reported to VAERS - could be 10x more!

Nearly a MILLION Injuries reported after vaccination.


And the 215 adverse event records deleted by VAERS from its system without documenting reason for deletion - almost all of them deaths.
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