Harav Fuerst regarding seminary

amother

Bottlebrush

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 12:44 pm

My kids are still little, but am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to send a 17/18 year old away for a whole year thousands of miles away? I went to seminary in Israel myself so I know what it's like. I would feel much more comfortable with a summer option, say the summer after 12th grade tour Israel and maybe Europe and then come home in time for the fall semester and yomim tovim.

amother

Lotus

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 12:47 pm

You are not the only one. My daughter is in 11th grade and I don't want to send her. It is ridiculous to say that maturity and self growth can only happen across an ocean in another country. And I was there for seminary too. I enjoyed it but the world is a different place...

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 1:18 pm

Fox wrote:

The women were over the age.of 18, so there was technically no crime.

The man involved was forced to sell the seminaries to outside investors and much of the staff was replaced. I haven't kept track of the current status.

A bit off-topic, but this is why I am disgusted by the lack of special batei din specializing in s-xual abuse in most communities. On its own, Chicago's beis din investigated the accusations; made sure the publicity wouldn't cause even more harm to the victims; and made sure the perpetrator was no longer in a sensitive position. I know the family of one of the victims, and she was able to get married without too much difficulty and now has a lovely family.

The fact that so few communities have created such a resource is criminal. Yet another debt that we owe to Rabbi Fuerst, sh'lita, who formed this beis din 25+ years ago.

I remember that story. IIRC the Chicago bais din tried to keep it under the radar, but he refused to cooperate so they put out a statement online as well as sent to other BY schools about how girls should not go to that sem. Only then was he forced to give up the sem. (I'm sure he had preyed on other girls over the years, not just those from Chicago. )
Also as I recall Mishpacha magazine put out a cover story after that, spelling out pretty clearly, that a lot of girls had had similar bad experiences in sem (not necessarily from a teacher, from Shabbos hosts, relatives, even bus drivers). There was a flurry of publicity at the time about how seminaries were going to put better safety protocols in place and "educate" the girls, but who knows.

tryinghard

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 3:20 pm

It’s not just MO girls that have no equivalent option here in the US. I was somewhat yeshivish in HS, but I went to a large MO school that had a large contingent of more right wing girls. I was definitely not BY material and none of the US seminaries were remotely appropriate for me. They were all way too BY for me, and I would not have done well in any of them. And I don’t think that has changed much. All the US seminaries are very BY, and it’s a circular issue because nothing will change if there aren’t girls willing to go, but the girls won’t be willing to go if there’s nothing appropriate for them.

Raisin

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:04 pm

tryinghard wrote:

Wouldn't Stern college be a somewhat similar experience for a M.O girl? There is a dorm, girls live away from home, I assume there are torah classes on the curriculum...

amother

Molasses

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:06 pm

amother [ Bottlebrush ] wrote:

And how about boys? Is it also crazy to send them? Or is there a double standard?

hello3

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:09 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Who cares? Israelis aren’t allowed to make money? I hate to break it to you, but high school and elementary schools owners/principals are also living very nicely, and those are NOT optional. Why should we fagin our own American principals and Rebbes and not Israel ones?

Ummm, what????? You clearly don’t work in the chinuch system. No principal or Rebbi are living nicely. No one in chinuch is in it for the money. The people in israel, are!

tryinghard

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:11 pm

Raisin wrote:

Wouldn't Stern college be a somewhat similar experience for a M.O girl? There is a dorm, girls live away from home, I assume there are torah classes on the curriculum...

I’m specifically NOT talking about MO girls. I was not MO and didn’t want that kind of atmosphere. That’s exactly what I mean - besides for the fact that Stern is in no way like a seminary, if that’s the only option other than super-BY places, where does that leave everyone in between? At least in EY there is a full spectrum of options. Not the case here.

Elfrida

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:13 pm

Raisin wrote:

Wouldn't Stern college be a somewhat similar experience for a M.O girl? There is a dorm, girls live away from home, I assume there are torah classes on the curriculum...

Torah classes on the curriculum is a very different thing to seminary, where the entire focus is on learning Torah. It's hard to compare a university with a few Torah classes to full time study.

Maybe someone who is more familiar can give a definite answer, but while Torah classes are available, I don't even know if they're compulsory.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Dec 30 2021, 4:24 pm

amother [ Lotus ] wrote:

Boys are different. In my community, boys are older when they go. Also, unfortunately its a reality that young women are more vulnerable.

True. Boys are often 20 or older when they go.
And some do get into trouble--there has been some coverage of this more recently.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 4:36 am

hello3 wrote:

Ummm, what????? You clearly don’t work in the chinuch system. No principal or Rebbi are living nicely. No one in chinuch is in it for the money. The people in israel, are!

No, the people in Israel who work in sems and yeshivot etc are also not doing it for the money. And they are living normal lives. Nobody is living a wealthy life here who is in chinuch. Just your average life.

amother

Iris

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 8:20 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

You probably don't know my cousin who owns a seminary in Israel. They make a very nice living off the seminary and are quite wealthy.