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Still seeking accurate lyrics.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 02 2022, 11:50 am
(I know, I know: I sound like a broken record.)
I STILL want the full and accurate words to the French verse of "Children of Silence". I have what may be a full version, but I would like authoritative confirmation. I happen to remember quite a bit of French from my Grade 7 through to post-graduate years, but I would like corroboration of what I have typeset as my own (rhyming? don't even remember any more) translation into English.
Any help out there? I already have the (first) English and (third) Hebrew verses.
ALSO:
Would some of you ladies PLEASE weigh in on my three or four suggestions to correct the atrocious grammar of Rochel Miller's nonsensical line in "Light Up My Way"?
Thanks in advance.
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post Sun, Jan 02 2022, 11:59 am
Perhaps you can reach out to
Yigal Calek?
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amother




Oxfordblue
 

Post Sun, Jan 02 2022, 12:08 pm
Well I went to my closet where I have a pile of records & covers from the 60s & 70s, believe it or not, which I plan one day to digitize...

Anyhow I DO HAVE THAT RECORD COVER!!!! And it has English & Hebrew lyrics, but the French is missing! However I think we may know one or two of those cute yingerlach on the cover... though one doubts they're going to remember French lyrics, especially if they never spoke French. Will see what I can find out...

ETA: no, I was confusing the London School of Jewish Song record with a Pirchei record which has a photo of many of the boys. However so excited to see a link to the recording so maybe I don't need to digitize the records!
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penguin




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 02 2022, 12:09 pm
Did you see this post?

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....33041
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post Sun, Jan 02 2022, 12:24 pm
Does this help you?

https://www.jyrics.com/lyrics/.....ence/
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Tortoise




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 6:47 am
Which line in "light up my way" are you missing? I love that song, thought I'm the only one who still sings it!
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 1:19 pm
The part that I was missing until I managed, purely by "accident", to find her by emailing the Agudah office where she then (still?) worked, was the grammatically nonsensical second line of the chorus. The first line is fine. It reads:

What you see, my friend, is the way of our Torah.

But the second line, as she recorded it, makes no sense, which is why I thought for years that my poor hearing (even with both hearing aids) was responsible:

When I know its HE and the mitzvos set me free.

(That's how she typed it on her Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.)

So my questions back to her were:
1. How can anyone past the age of seven not know the difference between "its" and "it's"?
2. When you know that what or who is He?
3. Why the capital "E" in "He"?
4. When you know that ______ is He, then what?
5. "The" mitzvos? Which mitzvos? Whose mitzvos?

So that's why I was asking for opinions on how to correct this unfortunate line of lyrics. Here are my choices:

1. Ei-itz chayim hee and her mitzvos set me free.
2. Ei-itz chayim hee and its mitzvos set me free.
3. All her ways are peace and her mitzvos set me free.
4. All its ways are peace and its mitzvos set me free.
5. Ev'ry word I keep, ev'ry mitzvah sets me free.

So how about it, ladies? Let's all be lyrics doctors.
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iyar




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 1:25 pm
Okay Choirmistress I'll vote.
I like 1. & 4.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 1:29 pm
Thanks for checking in, iyar. I hope I get enough answers to start tallying them.
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amother




Saddlebrown
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 2:24 pm
When you're done, can you copy and paste the full lyrics here and share with us all?
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Isramom8




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 3:08 pm
I don't know this song. And I care about grammar. But in this case, the intent seems clear: (Something probably aforementioned happens) when I have awareness of Hashem. And (in general, all) the mitzvos set me free (of general error and/or bad living).

Its could have been an autocorrect.

He is used because it rhymes with free.

HE is used to connote Hashem, as opposed to some random human guy.

If I were conducting a choir, and if I wanted to retain a reference to Hashem, I might change it to: When I trust Hashem, the mitzvos set me free. The phrase doesn't have to rhyme internally with itself.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 3:57 pm
Absolutely, Saddlebrown. I shall try to add it as an attachment to my answering post once I have enough votes to decide on a final line.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 4:11 pm
Isramom8 wrote:
I don't know this song. And I care about grammar. But in this case, the intent seems clear: (Something probably aforementioned happens) when I have awareness of Hashem. And (in general, all) the mitzvos set me free (of general error and/or bad living).

Its could have been an autocorrect.

He is used because it rhymes with free.

HE is used to connote Hashem, as opposed to some random human guy.

If I were conducting a choir, and if I wanted to retain a reference to Hashem, I might change it to: When I trust Hashem, the mitzvos set me free. The phrase doesn't have to rhyme internally with itself.


Sorry, Isramom8, but none of that washes:
I had already quoted the previous line, "What you see, my friend, is the way of our Torah", so nothing aforementioned happens when the author has awareness of Hashem. "When I know..." begins a new sentence (though in this case, an atrociously incorrect one). "Its" cannot have been an autocorrect because even autocorrect knows the difference. "HE" may have been used to rhyme with "free", but that does not excuse the grammatically incomplete thought of the line as a whole, nor does it explain or excuse capitalizing the "e". The reader already knows from the capital "H" that the author meant Hashem and not a human.
And no, if I were conducting a choir, I wouldn't need to make yet another reference to Hashem in order to retain that line's subject of the TORAH's mitzvos setting one free. Just two lines later is the end of the chorus, "For I trust in Hashem to light up my way." But thank you for your input.
Any other voters weighing in?
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dena613




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 4:51 pm
Never heard the song.
Don't know if it's right to change lyrics due to a typographical error (its), and HE maybe refers to Hashem?
If the lyricist wrote it that way (the way you hear it, not the way it's tyoed), then that's how she wanted it.
But if you want to know my opinion of the best option, I like 2.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 8:24 pm
Thanks for weighing in, dena613.
Sorry, but no, we are not talking about typographical errors but rather a grammatically incomplete and therefore incorrect thought, I.e., not even officially a sentence.
Of course she meant Hashem, and of course the way she typed it was the way she wanted it, but it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AS A SENTENCE.
Please, all of you, go back a few posts of mine and read the list of questions I posed to Mrs. Miller. Her only answer since then (over a year ago now, I think) was that she had to think about it.
Well, I like the song and want more people to enjoy it, so I have taken the initiative to have it ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE AS A SENTENCE.
Thank you, both participants who have actually voted so far.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 8:52 pm
Choirmistress wrote:
But the second line, as she recorded it, makes no sense, which is why I thought for years that my poor hearing (even with both hearing aids) was responsible:

When I know its HE and the mitzvos set me free.

(That's how she typed it on her Sprint Samsung Galaxy S9.)

So my questions back to her were:
1. How can anyone past the age of seven not know the difference between "its" and "it's"?
2. When you know that what or who is He?
3. Why the capital "E" in "He"?
4. When you know that ______ is He, then what?
5. "The" mitzvos? Which mitzvos? Whose mitzvos?

Honestly, if I was on the receiving end of such questions, I'd be pretty insulted and probably would terminate the discussion.

1. Even those of us who know the difference between "its" and "it's" occasionally make a mistake. And autocorrect will only fix the error if the next word makes the error obvious. For example, if I intended to type "it's about time," and accidentally typed "its absolute time" (which can totally happen if you swipe to type), autocorrect might not catch it, even when I go back and fix "absolute" to "about."

2. In the context of song lyrics, there is a certain amount of poetic license given. "When I know it's HE" = "when I know that it is from Hashem" or "when I know that it is the words of Hashem" or "when I know that it is the wisdom of Hashem," or even a reference to "Yisroel, Oraisa VeKudsha Brich Hu Chad Hu."

3. Capitalizing the entire word is often for emphasis, similar to using a bold font. Like, "When I know it comes from YOU then I pay close attention."

4. See #2. When I know that the Torah is the wisdom of/expression of/one with Hashem, then [my connection with] the mitzvos [of the Torah is able to] set me free. Lyrics are like poetry, a certain amount of brevity and implied meaning is common.

5. See previous.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 9:25 pm
Sorry, Buttercup, but no amount of allowing for brevity, or of poetic licence, can excuse a grammatically incomplete sentence.
By all means, Mrs. Miller is allowed to feel as offended as she likes. That will not fix the broken line of her lyrics.
I have taken note of, and come up with an easy fix for, one or two lines in three popular (secular) songs from around the seventies or maybe even earlier. I would not have bothered "fixing" them if I had not liked the songs enough to want this or future generations to enjoy the songs.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 9:48 pm
https://theweek.com/articles/4.....ences
Especially in poetry (or lyrics), a full sentence is not required, otherwise known as ellipsis.

If you believe in Shakespeare, from Romeo and Juliet: "I neither know it nor can learn of him" which is roughly explained as "I neither know [the cause of] it, nor can [I] learn [about it from] him." (courtesy of https://blogs.transparent.com/.....eare/)

Most people would be a little taken aback to hear Shakespeare considered "broken."
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 10:07 pm
Again, Buttercup, you have missed what is deficient in Mrs. Miller's line. Shakespeare's shortened wording still makes a grammatically complete thought. So no, that line of Shakespeare's is not broken.
"When I know it's He and the mitzvos set me free" does NOT make a grammatically complete thought.
When I know that ____________ (what or who?) is He, and (that?) the mitzvos set me free, THEN WHAT?
The sentence is incomplete. The thought is left dangling. The reader/listener feels like asking, "Nu? Shoin? Efsher? Maybe? Huh?" Like pulling teeth.
I was absolutely astounded when I first read Mrs. Miller's own email with the words she recorded. If I had been beside her when she first wrote them, I would definitely have offered my proofreading expertise.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Mon, Jan 03 2022, 10:14 pm
I think the exact same thing is deficient from Shakespeare as from (lehavdil) Mrs. Miller's line.

"I neither know it nor can learn of him"
= "I neither know [the cause of] it, nor can [I] learn [about it from] him."

"When I know it's HE and the mitzvos set me free."
= "When I know [the Torah] is [one with Hashem], then [performing] the mitzvos [of the Torah] sets me free."

I understand that you think you would have written it differently, and that you think your way is better, but I'm surprised that you consider this "broken" for being less explicit than your personal style.

(If you would have posted, "Here's the actual words, but I don't really like them because I prefer less vague lyrics, what do you think of alternate choices 1-6," I would have an easier time responding. I think criticizing a lyricist — particularly a non-anonymous lyricist — in this way is not very kind.)
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