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Still seeking accurate lyrics.
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familyfirst




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 1:15 am
Choirmaster-
I usually go by the motto- “if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it”
But don’t you think you’re coming across a little aggressive?
Even your letter to the author is a bit condescending.

In any case, glad you’re enjoying the song. Please share your final decision
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 1:29 am
Yerushalayim is not for sale [and who would have thought it was?]
Voices crying [whose voices? crying what?]
Thundering throughout our cities
You'd better run for your life [who is "you"?]
Back to Utah overnight [why Utah?]
Before the mountaintops open wide [which mountaintops?]
And swallow you inside [mountaintops can't swallow things up]

The Western Wall on Friday night, his first time ever there [this is not a grammatical sentence]
Strapped into his knapsack with his long and curly hair
He stood there for a while, then broke out with a smile
Emotions overwhelming, joy with tears [ditto]
...for showing them the way [what way?]
For giving them a day
To rest, rejoice, with peace of mind to pray

Lyrics are not the same as an essay.
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penguin




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 1:45 am
Your harmony I long...
is also not a sentence.

I believe lyricists do this pretty often.
For some of us, it is grating.
Others don't realize or don't pay attention.
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chanatron1000




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 1:57 am
[quote="amother [ Buttercup ]"]Yerushalayim is not for sale [and who would have thought it was?]
Voices crying [whose voices? crying what?]
Thundering throughout our cities
You'd better run for your life [who is "you"?]
Back to Utah overnight [why Utah?]
Before the mountaintops open wide [which mountaintops?]
And swallow you inside [mountaintops can't swallow things up]]

Yerushalayim Is Not For Sale is about Mormon leaders wanting to build a campus by Har Hazeisim. Literally and by nature, mountaintops can't swallow things up, but metaphorically and through miracles they can.
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chanatron1000




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 1:57 am
Sentence fragments are okay in lyrics. Confusing sentences can be a problem sometimes.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 2:20 am
chanatron1000 wrote:
Yerushalayim Is Not For Sale is about Mormon leaders wanting to build a campus by Har Hazeisim. Literally and by nature, mountaintops can't swallow things up, but metaphorically and through miracles they can.

I know, was trying to make a point Smile
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groisamomma




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jan 04 2022, 2:29 am
This takes arrogance to a whole 'nother level.
If you're jealous, or have another reason to humiliate Ms. Miller, then why don't you say so?

Here:
"I'm a better songwriter, everyone, so help me butcher a song that makes sense to everyone else so I can show just how superior I am."
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 05 2022, 12:20 am
To groissamomma:
NOT sorry to disappoint you, but I am neither jealous of, nor have any reason to humiliate, Mrs. Miller. In fact, I accord her all due kudos for the rest of that song, and for most of her other original lyrics.
Your "illustration" of what you have others on this website belief is arrogance on my part, is at best presumptuous, and at worst, hypocritical:
No, I have never claimed to be a better songwriter.
No, I have no desire to butcher any song.
No, the questionable line in the subject song ("Light Up My Way") does NOT make sense to EVERYONE else, because the indisputable fact is that NOT everyone else has heard it or knows it. (That several posts in response to mine disagree with me does not by far mean that non-responders, or non-participants in these threads, also disagree.)
No, I have no desire to "show just how superior I am."

My aim here is to fix the one line in an otherwise lovely song that I would like far many more Jewish women to hear and enjoy -- and MAKE SENSE OF.

So, groissamomma:
Just three more words for you. And I will say them as humbly as I can:
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Wed, Jan 05 2022, 12:35 pm
Choirmistress:

What I think Groisamomma was trying to say, although I disagree with the way she said it, was:

The way Rochel Miller chose to word her lyrics is a matter of stylistic choice. Yes, even when it is an incomplete fragment or an ellipsis. Yes, even when you think you could come up with a "better" version.

You are fully entitled to DISLIKE the way she did it or to PREFER a different phrase.

You are fully entitled to say, "if I'm going to do a cover of this song, I'll need to reword that line, I'm not comfortable singing it as is."

But the way you are speaking is harsh and disrespectful to Rochel Miller. You are telling her that she doesn't know grammar, that because she chose to be vague she is "wrong," and that "it makes no sense" because you don't find it as clear as you like lyrics to be.


There is a line in a famous Avraham Fried song that I think is ridiculous, it looks to be a corny joke in an otherwise emotional song. But were I to come to him and say, "Listen Avremel, even a 5 year old knows that is a pathetic joke. What on earth were you thinking? You took an otherwise beautiful song and made it sound stupid. You should have written it like this." I would be being unbelievably rude.

If I felt the need to say something to him, I'd be very careful with my wording and insinuations. "Rabbi Friedman, I've been thinking about that line in your song. I want to do a cover of it, but I don't feel comfortable with singing that, it sounds to me like a joke and ruins the mood in my mind. Do you mind if I change the line slightly to ____ instead?"
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 07 2022, 2:14 am
Buttercup:
Interesting... You can read Groisamomma's mind now? Hmmmm......
Well, if EITHER of you was saying or implying that Mrs. Miller's lyrics are a matter of stylistic choice, then one or both of you is/are wrong. There is stylistic choice and then there is a sentence fragment. A sentence fragment does not complete or even imply a grammatically usable thought. A recent TV episode of a sci-fi series was entitled "I Ain't Goin' Out That Way". Grammatically acceptable? No way. Accepted by social convention and long usage? Unfortunately, yes, as with thousands of other examples of "ain't", especially in modern music.

The case here, however, is one of inscrutability of its meaning. If Mrs. Miller were to reword, rephrase, or rework that line for clarity of meaning, I would have ZERO problem with it. As it is, we have all been reading at least half a dozen individual contributors' interpretations. If the meaning had been clear, there would not be so many differing opinions.

"You are telling her that she doesn't know grammar, that because she chose to be vague she is 'wrong,' and that 'it makes no sense' because you don't find it as clear as you like lyrics to be."

Wrong, Buttercup. Mrs. Miller may know her grammar very well. GENERALLY. And no, we all know that did not CHOOSE to be vague. But the grammatical fact remains that that particular single line of that one song IS wrong, DOES NOT make sense, and NOT because I don't find it as clear as I would like lyrics to be.

I make my living correcting other people's English. That does not mean that I am like a scalpel-happy surgeon who can't resist cutting into a patient. I know very well when -- and how -- to leave an author's personal voice alone.

That several respondents have disagreed with my criticisms of the line in "Light Up My Way" does not mean that there do not exist those who agree with them. As a result of being verbally "ganged up on" by most of the respondents to my OP, I have taken the initiative in sending Mrs. Miller a personal apology for my original "harshness" (the word of others, not mine). If she still does not respond by early next week, my request for input on the choices I offered for a substitute line shall remain.

How's this, folks? When you have written 37 lyrics; embellished/added to/expanded upon four others; written three pairs of counterpoint melodies; and done singable translations of 86 existing songs, feel free to criticize me and my critique of ONE line in ONE song of Mrs. Miller's.

Hatzlacha and kol toov to all, have a happy Sh'vat and a good Shabbos.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Fri, Jan 07 2022, 2:35 am
Again, I have no issue with you feeling that this line doesn't fit in, even if I personally can justify it. With all of your songwriting experience, I'm sure you have excellent ideas of ways to improve and clarify lyrics. I think it's great that you're fine-tuning songs, taking them from good to amazing.

Which means you can totally say, "Hey, this line is jarring to me, it looks vague and incomplete where the rest of the song is not. I think we can improve it, what do you think about modifying the lyrics like this?"

What you should NOT say is, "Gosh, your grammar is worse than a third grader. What on earth were you smoking when you wrote this? Nobody, but nobody, has any idea of what you're trying to say. I'm cutting it out obviously, so do you have a preference for which of these choices to take?"

Since you spend so much time on word choices, tone, and nuance, I'm sure you can understand why my second example is unacceptably harsh.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 20 2022, 11:31 am
Yes, Buttercup, I get it. Especially after so many agreed with you. Which is why I sent Mrs. Miller an apologetic follow-up email.
Your post is now over a week old. (I didn't notice it right away.)
And Mrs. Miller has yet to respond.
I will leave the judgement of my latest actions in the court of this website's opinion.
Regards.
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Choirmistress




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 20 2022, 11:35 am
chanatron1000 wrote:
Sentence fragments are okay in lyrics. Confusing sentences can be a problem sometimes.

Mrs. Miller's single problematic line is an example of both in one: It's confusing BECAUSE it's a sentence fragment.
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