The problem with frum novels

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:49 pm

I'm an aspiring author and I'm writing a frum book. I noticed that there's very few online reviews of frum books, but I've heard people complain about them before. As in, secular novels are more well written. So... What's the problem with frum novels? No need to call out a specific novel, I don't want to bash, just wanted to see how to make my book the best it can be.

I'll start. My problem with frum novels is that sometimes there's too much repetition when the novel used to be a magazine serial.

amother

Khaki

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:52 pm

It’s rare to find a frum novel that actually pulls me in.
Some great non Frum books really draw you in with the way they are written, the subject matter… some examples:
Where the crawdads sing
All the light we cannot see
Beneath a scarlet sky
The help

There’s depth to the plot and characters.

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:54 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

Is it the plot, the prose or both?

amother

Khaki

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:56 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is it the plot, the prose or both?

Both.

Once in a while I enjoy a book that is well written but doesn’t have much depth. I don’t finish the book feeling blown away, as though I’ve been transported to another time and place- rather I finish and think, how cute.

The ones that have no depth and are not written well are impossible for me to finish.
The ones with depth that are not written well are quite boring.

#BestBubby

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:58 pm

Some problems are the publisher's fault - they don't edit all the spelling/grammar errors.

Some people feel the books are too Preachy - but you have to have standards to be a "frum" novel.

I have read many great frum novels.

I Love Rachel Pomerants books: Wildflower, A time to rend, A time to Sew

Lazevnick wrote some good novels.

The serialized novels in the magazines - some are very good. People love the Roadblock book.

runninglate

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 10:59 pm

I think a main problem is that authors work harder on the plot than they do on getting you to relate to the characters.

imorethanamother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:01 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Ha there was a thread a while back on this. A contest to see who can write the most cliché-ridden paragraph, with bonus points for using trite phrases like "she reached for her tear-soaked tehillim" or something like that.

Where is that thread? I never laughed so hard.

amother

Apple

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:05 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

My non-frum HS English teacher actually pointed to Rachel Pomerantz as an example of a frum writer who was not just plot-driven but whose characters had real depth. That was many years ago though and there may be more recent examples; I’m afraid I have no time for reading these days.

gibberish

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:06 pm

I think frum writers are limited with what they can do. Bad language is not allowed, conflict is not recommended, and no one wants to draw you into it highlight a character with bad middos. I think in secular books it's the conflicts and then working through them is what draws me in.

honeymoon

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:09 pm

Many of the topics explored in the secular novels that are emotionally intense and meant to draw you into the plot are taboo in the frum communities.

The plotlines of frum novels vary between dating, marriage, family dynamics and child rearing. While these are wonderful topics, it gets really stale to read about pre-engagement jitters or sleepless nights with kids, over and over again, in different words.

The prose in frum novels is really blah, for the most part. I'm happy if I can finish a book without coming across a grammatical error. I did learn so much in the literacy department from secular novels, if not anything else.

I haven't read a Jewish novel in years, other than some of the serials I read in some of the magazines. I do like frum biographies, though.

#BestBubby

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:10 pm

I dunno.

Plenty of people with Bad Middos in frum novels.

I think things have "loosened up" and books are more dramatic.

honeymoon

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:15 pm

runninglate wrote:

I think a main problem is that authors work harder on the plot than they do on getting you to relate to the characters.

Yes! there is hardly any character development. Halfway into the book and I still don't get who Shani or Shmuel are.

In most secular novels I can predict what Peggy will think about a certain situation or how she will react, way before the situation arises. I start identifying with the characters and find the ones whom I like, dislike and want to see dead. I relate to their experiences and root for my favorites in my mind.

In most (not all!) Jewish novels, the characters aren't that real in my mind. I often feel like I'm watching the story as an outsider and not from within the drama.

LovesHashem

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:20 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I dunno.

Plenty of people with Bad Middos in frum novels.

I think things have "loosened up" and books are more dramatic.

Correct. And then they aren't realistic or relatable.

In real life how many of us have gotten caught up with mafia? And then there like 16 characters who all happen to connect at some point and meet each other from different places and it always ends in a Simcha.

I loved the depth of characters in M. Kenan's. And Ruti Keplers books. There's still the issue of the plot but both authors drag you in very well to the story...

imorethanamother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:20 pm

Here it is! Watergirl for the win!

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....51525

Just avoid every cliche she mentions, and you MIGHT have a solid novel!

mushkamothers

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:23 pm

Dialogue. Or lack thereof. No actual voice, and if there is (italian cab driver, bubby figure) it's cliche or stereotypical.

StrongMomma

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:34 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

I really enjoy these two authors, although I do feel like Ruti Kepler’s are limited with the word count of being in a magazine. M. Kenan’s characters are so intriguing, and the plot draws the reader in like science fiction.
I also really enjoy E. G. Schwartz’s books- her characters are very complex.

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:42 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Here it is! Watergirl for the win!

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....51525

Just avoid every cliche she mentions, and you MIGHT have a solid novel!

Gosh I remember that thread. It's hilarious!
I do have a shidduch in my story but you can actually read about their dates which for some reason was mostly skipped in the novels I read.

amother

Wed, Jan 05 2022, 11:45 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Correct. And then they aren't realistic or relatable..

The lack of realism bothers me too. Sometimes I laugh about it, even though I think it's meant seriously.