Home

Renouncing citizenship
1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 9:28 am
We lived in EY for a number of years after making Aliyah. Our children are citizens, and we moved back to the US a number of years ago. When we were moving a few people mentioned to us that we should renounce our sons' citizenships so that if they want to come learn in EY later on they will not have problems with the army. We were also told that if we do renounce their citizenship then it will be harder for them to live there if they want to as adults. We were also told not to bother renouncing the girls' citizenships because it wont be a problem for them.
My older son is now 14.5 and we have not yet renounced his citizenship. Do I need to do so before a certain age? How do I go about doing so?
Has anyone else had experience with this? should we do it or is it easy to get a deferment (what if he wants to learn there for more than a year)? Any other thought or information would be helpful!
Back to top

shanie5




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 3:10 pm
I don't know exact details , but I know a guy who's family made Aliya when he was a early teen. He came back to the states for college and stayed. When leavi g Israel after a visit to his family, he was told he can leave, but if he tries to come to Israel again he may be arrested for not serving in the army. He chose to stay and do his service before returning to the states. This way he can still visit his family in Israel.
Back to top

amother




Mintcream
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 3:14 pm
Don't renounce Israeli citizenship, you never know the future. Not all army positions are combat.
Back to top

amother




Aubergine
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 3:45 pm
I made Aliyah as a child with my family, and then we left before I turned 18. When I came back for seminary and then for a little while when I was married, I had TREMENDOUS problems. The army thing was easy to take care of. My biggest problem was that the government didn’t want to give me bituach leumi unless I signed that I’m staying in Israel (I asked a shaila and was told I can’t sign since I was not planning on staying long term and it would be lying). Regular health insurance there doesn’t cover hospitals because the government covers that part. I was pregnant, and had to leave Israel because I couldn’t be there without hospital health coverage. The whole thing was a mess.
It was also a mess trying to get my own ID card since when I left I was a h bH old on my mothers. I couldn’t open a back account, make misrad hapnim appointments, etc.

We very seriously considered renouncing my citizenship upon my return to Israel so that my kids don’t have to go through this. But times are changing and I’m hesitant to get rid of it.
Back to top

naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 4:14 pm
I hear the times are changing argument, but it seems to me that Covid is making Israel a far more hostile place thatn the US
Back to top

amother




Hunter
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 4:18 pm
I was born in Israel but was raised in America. I have dual citizenship and when I travel to Israel I use my Israeli Passport to get into the country. When I was in seminary I did not have any trouble. I had to go to the Israeli consulate in NY and get some sort of certificate. If I remember correctly it said that I was a child of parents who had a "failed immigration." My parents had moved to Israel then moved back to America a few years later.
Back to top

amother




Powderblue
 

Post Thu, Jan 13 2022, 4:48 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
I made Aliyah as a child with my family, and then we left before I turned 18. When I came back for seminary and then for a little while when I was married, I had TREMENDOUS problems. The army thing was easy to take care of. My biggest problem was that the government didn’t want to give me bituach leumi unless I signed that I’m staying in Israel (I asked a shaila and was told I can’t sign since I was not planning on staying long term and it would be lying). Regular health insurance there doesn’t cover hospitals because the government covers that part. I was pregnant, and had to leave Israel because I couldn’t be there without hospital health coverage. The whole thing was a mess.
It was also a mess trying to get my own ID card since when I left I was a h bH old on my mothers. I couldn’t open a back account, make misrad hapnim appointments, etc.

We very seriously considered renouncing my citizenship upon my return to Israel so that my kids don’t have to go through this. But times are changing and I’m hesitant to get rid of it.


I had a similar experience. I was born in Israel to parents who had made aliyah, then left as a baby. As a child I had no problems visiting but when I went one time at age 17/18 I was given alot of trouble at the airport, which we eventually sorted by getting a ptor. But when I went to live there as a married adult I hit upon so many problems with bituach leumi, teudat zehut etc. My first birth I left, and my second birth we managed to sort it out only a month before. All utilities, arnona etc was so difficult. My brothers though couldn't stay there at all past 6 months and they had to leave.
My boys are still very young so I have time but I do intend to renounce their citizenship for that reason. My dds have israeli citizenship since we lived there when they were babies and we had to register them in order for them to have bituach leumi. I'm not sure what to do for them re. citizenship but for now I'm leaving it as is. My oldest doesn't want to go to Israel for sem so we have a bit more time.
Back to top

amother




Begonia
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 3:56 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
I hear the times are changing argument, but it seems to me that Covid is making Israel a far more hostile place thatn the US
Seriously? You had to post this? Makes no sense, but ok.
Back to top

amother




Crimson
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:16 am
Yeah, that's why I don't make aliyah even though we plan to live in EY forever... Here almost 5 years on Visas
When I gave birth refused citizenship for the baby. We have bituach leumi and everything, no problems meanwhile. Even getting into gan/school was no big deal.
Back to top

Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:17 am
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
Yeah, that's why I don't make aliyah even though we plan to live in EY forever... Here almost 5 years on Visas


If you plan on living here forever what's the problem? The problem is only if you go back.
Back to top

amother




Crimson
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:20 am
Reality wrote:
If you plan on living here forever what's the problem? The problem is only if you go back.

What if we ch'vs do end up moving back?! We don't want "failed immigration status" as someone else said
Back to top

amother




Scarlet
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:25 am
If kids don't want to serve in the army, it's just a matter of filling out the correct paperwork to get exempted But who knows - by the time they are of age, the draft may no longer be necessary, or they may want to serve.

If you renounce your citizenship, you may find (as people have during corona) that you can't just pop in at will.
Back to top

amother




Begonia
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:51 am
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
What if we ch'vs do end up moving back?! We don't want "failed immigration status" as someone else said
Thats the only reason you wont make official aliyah? On the off chance you go back? Thats very sad. If you ehole life is in israel, its pretty much the same thing.
Back to top

amother




Powderblue
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 4:59 am
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
Yeah, that's why I don't make aliyah even though we plan to live in EY forever... Here almost 5 years on Visas
When I gave birth refused citizenship for the baby. We have bituach leumi and everything, no problems meanwhile. Even getting into gan/school was no big deal.


If one parent is israeli then you can't refuse citizenship for the child, they are automatically considered israeli.

It's easier for israeli living in Israel boys not to the army, for boys living abroad then coming to Israel as young adults it's alot more complicated.
Back to top

heidi




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 5:04 am
Wow!
I guess I should have known not to open this thread.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Renouncing Israeli citizenship.
תתביישו
Back to top

Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 5:20 am
heidi wrote:
Wow!
I guess I should have known not to open this thread.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Renouncing Israeli citizenship.
תתביישו


Definitely healthier not too. It's very hard to understand this mindset.

I have a lot of family that moved here to learn so they didn't make "aliyah". Those that ended up staying all became citizens. You live in a country, don't you want to be able to vote? Be eligible for healthcare etc. I can't imagine living in any country long term as a non-citizen, leaving aside all my thoughts about Israel/Zionism.
Back to top

amother




Powderblue
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 5:48 am
The only reason I'd want to renounce my sons' citizenship is specifically so they can live in Israel as young adults if they'd choose to. I'd hate for them to be in the same positions as my brothers who really wanted to live there but were unable to. The laws for citizens abroad are different to those living in Israel.

Even for my girls, I had a much harder time navigating all the different aspects of living in Israel than my friends with no citizenship. Starting with being unable to get a teudat zehut for months, and without that being unable to open bank accounts, so being unable to open accounts with gas, electric, phone etc, not to mention health insurance. It was a mess. And for what purpose? Being israeli doesn't mean anything if you live in another country from the age of 6 months.

If we renounce and my children then decide to make aliyah, then by all means I'd be so happy. I wish I could live in Israel too and my secret plan is to do that when we retire.
Back to top

amother




Scarlet
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 6:20 am
amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:
The only reason I'd want to renounce my sons' citizenship is specifically so they can live in Israel as young adults if they'd choose to. I'd hate for them to be in the same positions as my brothers who really wanted to live there but were unable to. The laws for citizens abroad are different to those living in Israel.

Even for my girls, I had a much harder time navigating all the different aspects of living in Israel than my friends with no citizenship. Starting with being unable to get a teudat zehut for months, and without that being unable to open bank accounts, so being unable to open accounts with gas, electric, phone etc, not to mention health insurance. It was a mess. And for what purpose? Being israeli doesn't mean anything if you live in another country from the age of 6 months.

If we renounce and my children then decide to make aliyah, then by all means I'd be so happy. I wish I could live in Israel too and my secret plan is to do that when we retire.


This makes no sense. Why couldn't your brothers live in Israel? Thousands of young men who don't want to serve in the army are full citizens. (Not my thing, but thousands do it.)

And it's not going to be easy to make aliyah if you have renounced your citizenship.
Back to top

essie14




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 6:23 am
heidi wrote:
Wow!
I guess I should have known not to open this thread.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Renouncing Israeli citizenship.
תתביישו

I cannot understand this at all.
I'm just baffled.
And sad.
I treasure my Israeli citizenship.
Back to top

amother




Powderblue
 

Post Fri, Jan 14 2022, 9:40 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
This makes no sense. Why couldn't your brothers live in Israel? Thousands of young men who don't want to serve in the army are full citizens. (Not my thing, but thousands do it.)

And it's not going to be easy to make aliyah if you have renounced your citizenship.


Right, thousands of men who grew up in Israel. For israeli citizens men who haven't grown up in Israel, between the ages of I think 18 to 26 they can't be in Israel for more than 6 months. The only way around it is to do the army, it is very difficult to get a ptur.
No it doesn't make any sense but that's the reality. The same way it doesn't make any sense that I had such a hard time proving my existence in Israel just because I had been born there, moreso than someone who hadn't. They could just use their foreign passport and were fine. I remember now that another snag was when we were finally able to apply to bituach leumi they then wanted backpayment from my whole childhood. That took another while to sort out

I'm not worried about them potentially wanting to make aliyah, they aren't renouncing after living there, they were born and live abroad. If they renounce then they can go live in Israel like the rest of the world.
Back to top
1, 2  Next Recent Topics

Page 1 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Pls help israeli citizenship , NY over 30 days old baby
by amother
7 Tue, Dec 14 2021, 3:24 pm View last post
by SG18
How can I apply for Israeli citizenship
by amother
16 Tue, Aug 17 2021, 4:59 pm View last post
Anyone applied for Hungarian citizenship?
by rabshi
11 Fri, May 14 2021, 12:11 am View last post
NYS health exchange wants proof of citizenship status
by amother
7 Thu, Feb 11 2021, 2:06 pm View last post
Citizenship question s/o 9 Fri, Jan 15 2021, 3:23 am View last post