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Do you want to know when HS girls are cheating on your tests
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amother




Outerspace
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:20 pm
A girl who cheats on high school exams without consequence is at major risk of going through her entire life lying, cheating and bending the rules to get what she wants. And she probably won't even realize how wrong what she is doing is.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:20 pm
ValleyMom wrote:
As a teacher we need to be held accountable for being alert and aware when proctoring an exam.

This is not the time for a teacher to be saying her daily tehillim or scrolling instagram.

Educators are PAID to be alert, aware and actively observing the class.

I find this entire thread bizarre- students are not being held accountable for their dishonesty, parents disregard their child's dishonesty, and teachers accused of being "lazy"... I am stunned.


More likely for a teacher to be doing paperwork or grading papers. At least at any school I have ever worked at phones are only used in an emergency or to text administration for something time sensitive.
And a midterm can be 4 hours, typically as a proctor I walk up and down every 10-15 minutes or come to people as hands are raised. I am not scanning the classroom every second. My goal is to avoid cheating but I can’t be perfect.
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amother




Calendula
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:22 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
Why are you shocked? Why is it my responsibility as a teacher to walk up and down a high school classroom full of yiddishe girls and assume that they will cheat? I don’t believe they will cheat and Itell them that I trust that a bas yisroel won’t cheat.
And a teen age girl should be responsible for her own actions.
Perhaps you as a parent need to reinforce your chinuch. After all children see and copy things at home.


Please H-Shem NEVER let my child have this woman as a teacher, or even come in contact to possibly have any connection with this anti Torah, warped hashkafa at all.

I am assuming you are NOT in Chinuch but if you are, what then IS your “job” pray tell?!

Actually, please do NOT tell. It will only make things worse.

I don't want to hear where (or if...) you got YOUR chinuch from.

Oy, Do we need Moshiach.

O. M. G.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:24 pm
Along a similar line, I have a student who has a 70 average and every time she does homework she gets 💯. You think I don’t know that her older sister or parents are helping her ?? Of course I do but I can’t prevent it, the same way I can tell clearly when a book report is written by a 6th grader or her mother. Grades are multifaceted.
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ssspectacular




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:26 pm
I am a h.s. teacher. I proctor very carefully, especially at the end of the exam when girls are moving around. Unfortunately, there are girls who will cheat if they are not monitored and they should be stopped for their own good. It also depends on the culture of the school. In my h.s.. they take this seriously. Honesty is crucial to being an ehrliche person. I am horrified by some responses.

There is a concept of Lifnei evair lo siten michshal-you shouldn't put a stumbling block in front of a blind person. it is the teacher's responsibility to make it a proper environment.


Last edited by ssspectacular on Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:26 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
How do they cheat?
I once had a teacher accuse me of cheating and I really didn't. At times when I'm feeling very low, I still tear up at the incident. So all of you teachers who are so sure you know everything, you really don't.

See we can’t win.
Since you say you did not cheat- I am truly sorry you were accused. Please let it go. You are truly worth more than that teacher thought you of you.
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amother




SandyBrown
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:26 pm
I think this can be a great discussion if it were about the teacher wondering what to do about students cheating or if the mother of a girl cheating wanted to know what to do. But I think a girl making it her business to be busy with what other's are doing is a big problem. I really think this needs to be addressed by you the mother. She can't go through life with this attitude and be this bothered by others. This will come up in so many places in life, she has to be able to just do the right thing and not let it get to her. She cannot control those around her, she has to let go.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:26 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
How does an A student cheat to valedictorian?
You really think teachers are stupid? You really think grades are given based on two or three tests? There is classwork and participation and assignments and having material ready and so forth. Cheating is not fostered, there are students who will cheat, teachers know exactly who they are.
Case in point- a student who was sure she would be valedictorian- she was an above average student because of a good memory thahkb”h blessed her with, she put in zero effort , and had an attitude. She was not chosen- you should have seen the fit she threw. But another student who rightly deserved it was chosen.
Those who are not in chinuch should stop assuming they can tell teachers how to run the classrooms.

Those who are making stupid assumptions should stop telling other people how to reposed.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:30 pm
There was a girl in my HS class who cheated. It really bothered me. She was considered a top girl and was a teachers daughter.
I never even thought of telling the teacher on her. It really wasn't my business. It's between her and Hashem. Honestly, I am sure that some teachers noticed; the cheating girl didn't do it in the most saavy way.

As a teacher I will just say that I would not respect a student who came to snitch on another girl for cheating. People have to know when to mind their own business and not be worried about everyone else around them.
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amother




Silver
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:31 pm
I think it’s poor middos to tell on your peers for something they are doing wrong that is not bein odom lchavairo. It’s self-righteous and borderline mean. It’s the teacher’s job to proctor the class and ensure her tests are cheat-proof. The fact that your daughter resents that others are not working as hard as her and getting equal or better grades is her personal challenge to work on. Life is about how we measure up relative to our own potential, not others. I get that it’s frustrating and feels unfair, but her resentment says more about her own dissatisfaction with how hard she has to work than it does about anyone else’s behavior. Her classmates cheating is for themselves and the teacher to reckon with.
FTR I have never cheated and witnessed rampant cheating in high school. I don’t excuse the cheating but it’s not a peer’s place to tattletale.
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:36 pm
Notice how some parents here refuse to acknowledge that chinuch is their job. They throw it all on the teachers. Notice from the comments here how many parents are absolutely clueless.
Thank you to those posters who are saying what I am saying but in a nicer and gentler way.
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amother




Razzmatazz
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:37 pm
As a high school teacher, I would rather be lax in "catching " a student who cheated than ever Chas veshalom accuse someone wrongly!

And another student telling me that someone cheated would definitely not be enough proof for me to confront them.
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amother




Ruby
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:43 pm
Cheating demonstrates a much larger problem with our education system than in the cheaters. Grades are being used to rate the student's value rather than to improve education.
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amother




Rainbow
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:51 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
So what? It’s not my job to stop the cheating. If a bas yisroel feels the need to cheat, and in HighSchool, that’s her choice and problem.
Maybe something is going on at home and she couldn’t study,
maybe she has overbearing parents who will yell at her if she fails,
Maybe she will collapse if she fails,
Maybe her image as a “ A” student simply cannot be tarnished,
Maybe she is someone who likes to cut corners,
Maybe she is a cheater or liar( I can’t and won’t believe this),so she will learn later in life that people catch on and don’t respect such persons.
Leave it alone.
And if a student is shvach in class but aces her test, you think a teacher doesn’t know she cheated?


As someone who works in the administration of a high school, I now understand why girls cheat. It’s because of parents like you that justify behavior like this. I’m sure you would want to go to a doctor who cheated on his exams or perhaps a judge that doesn’t know the laws. Or even better, a rav that got smicha based on cheating. Should I go on?
You think these people ever change? It starts small and ends big. And then you wonder why there are so many men/woman that cheat. Because everything is justified.
Honestly, I don’t really care if this kid has a life story. She can turn to the principal for help before doing such a kroom thing. And if I were you, I would take this chance to really lean when to be Dan lekaf zechus, there are times that one should not justify dishonesty.
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:52 pm
amother [ Calendula ] wrote:
Please H-Shem NEVER let my child have this woman as a teacher, or even come in contact to possibly have any connection with this anti Torah, warped hashkafa at all.

I am assuming you are NOT in Chinuch but if you are, what then IS your “job” pray tell?!

Actually, please do NOT tell. It will only make things worse.

I don't want to hear where (or if...) you got YOUR chinuch from.

Oy, Do we need Moshiach.

O. M. G.

Drama queen. Did you actually read what I wrote? Or did you skim through and read 1 or two words?
How is this anti torah? I specifically said I trust that they don’t cheat.
High school girls ( some are old enough to work or enter shidduchim) should be responsible for their own actions.
And chinuch begins at home.
Again how is that anti torah?
Bothers you when I say that kids pick up habits from home? Truth is truth.
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little neshamala




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:55 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
So what? It’s not my job to stop the cheating. If a bas yisroel feels the need to cheat, and in HighSchool, that’s her choice and problem.
Maybe something is going on at home and she couldn’t study,
maybe she has overbearing parents who will yell at her if she fails,
Maybe she will collapse if she fails,
Maybe her image as a “ A” student simply cannot be tarnished,
Maybe she is someone who likes to cut corners,
Maybe she is a cheater or liar( I can’t and won’t believe this),so she will learn later in life that people catch on and don’t respect such persons.
Leave it alone.
And if a student is shvach in class but aces her test, you think a teacher doesn’t know she cheated?


Im a little taken aback by this response.

I was a girl who "had things going on" at home, all my life. We were dirt poor, and I do mean that literally. My mother was physically collapsing from the emotional stress and was therefor abusive to us children. Then she would feel bad and cry all day. My father tried his hardest, but was hospitalized due to the pressure. My home life was absolutely horrific.

I tried my very hardest to do well in school. I studied for hours on end, I took all my notes with me to my many babysitting jobs and studied all night there too. Getting good grades was my way to my own successful life. BH I did well, earned honors report cards, applied to and got into the college of my choice etc...

But youre saying if there were girls in my class who decided to cheat their way to good grades, its ok. We should let them be. If they cheat their way to the highest GPA, or a prestigious award, its ok? If they bumped me out of getting the award myself, its ok? Why??
Completely not understanding this way of thinking


Last edited by little neshamala on Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 2:55 pm
amother [ Rainbow ] wrote:
As someone who works in the administration of a high school, I now understand why girls cheat. It’s because of parents like you that justify behavior like this. I’m sure you would want to go to a doctor who cheated on his exams or perhaps a judge that doesn’t know the laws. Or even better, a rav that got smicha based on cheating. Should I go on?
You think these people ever change? It starts small and ends big. And then you wonder why there are so many men/woman that cheat. Because everything is justified.
Honestly, I don’t really care if this kid has a life story. She can turn to the principal for help before doing such a kroom thing. And if I were you, I would take this chance to really lean when to be Dan lekaf zechus, there are times that one should not justify dishonesty.

Seriously? Reread what I wrote.
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amother




Buttercup
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:05 pm
I am not a teacher. I think it is terrible to have an environment which makes it so easy for the students to teach. I paid close to $20,000 tuition a year and the teacher couldn't be bothered to mark his own tests. Instead he had the girls switch papers and mark their friends' tests. No opportunity for cheating there, right? You bet I called him. The administration would not back me up, but only offered to have the teacher mark my kid's test Banging head

I don't think the time to mark exams is during exam time. That is the time for proctoring. When I was in school, for midterms and finals we sat far apart and spaced every other seat with girls from other grades to limit the temptation to cheat. The value given over is not, "We don't trust you." It's, "Cheating is not a good choice in life. Get used to it."
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:08 pm
little neshamala wrote:
Im a little taken aback by this response.

I was a girl who "had things going on" at home, all my life. We were dirt poor, and I do mean that literally. My mother was physically collapsing from the emotional stress and was therefor abusive to us children. Then she would feel bad and cry all day. My father tried his hardest, but was hospitalized due to the pressure. My home life was absolutely horrific.

I tried my very hardest to do well in school. I studied for hours on end, I took all my notes with me to my many babysitting jobs and studied all night there too. Getting good grades was my way to my own successful life. BH I did well, earned honors report cards, applied to and got into the college of my choice etc...

But youre saying if there were girls in my class who decided to cheat their way to good grades, its ok. We should let them be. If they cheat their way to the highest GPA, or a prestigious award, its ok? If they bumped me out of getting the award myself, its ok? Why??
Completely not understanding this way of thinking

NO- I am not saying it is ok. I am just trying to point out to parents that they don’t know what goes on in a classroom and what teachers have to consider when it comes to students. They don’t know when or how a teacher confronts situations. They think that teachers don’t know or do anything and they have to tell teachers what to do. No cheating is not ok. No it is not permitted. Yes students cheat. Yes girls should be responsible for their own actions. Yes there are consequences to every action.
Yes girls who work hard get upset and frustrated- and rightly so.
Stop assuming teachers don’t know what is going on in their own classroom.
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amother




Nasturtium
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:19 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
Why are you shocked? Why is it my responsibility as a teacher to walk up and down a high school classroom full of yiddishe girls and assume that they will cheat? I don’t believe they will cheat and Itell them that I trust that a bas yisroel won’t cheat.
And a teen age girl should be responsible for her own actions.
Perhaps you as a parent need to reinforce your chinuch. After all children see and copy things at home.


This is pretty shocking.

Yes, it actually is a pretty primary part of your responsibility as a teacher to prevent and watch out for cheating.

I really wonder if you're oiver on lifnai iver by not being careful. You're putting a stumbling block that there should be guardrails around.
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