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Do you want to know when HS girls are cheating on your tests
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amother




Dahlia
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:21 pm
I'm a teacher. I try to make my exams so that students can't cheat easily-- they involve writing and critical thinking, mostly. But even if I were teaching math or something with more definite answers, I would want to be told that it was going on. I agree that I wouldn't accuse anyone based on the word of one student because that could be really tricky. But I'd know to keep an eye on those students and on the class in general. If I'm not doing my best to prevent it, it becomes a class culture problem. And if cheating is rampant, it's either too easy or kids care too much about getting the grade rather than learning (which is another problem, and can be caused by parental pressure)

As far as your daughter, I agree with others that unfortunately, this is a part of life. There will always be cheaters, and it's not right or fair, but sometimes they are very successful (and won't get caught, or won't get caught till way later). It's one of those injustices that causes us to lose our innocence as we get older. Life isn't so black and white. It's better that she learns this lesson now as she learns to navigate the world as a young adult.
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amother




Black
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:24 pm
amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:
A girl who cheats on high school exams without consequence is at major risk of going through her entire life lying, cheating and bending the rules to get what she wants. And she probably won't even realize how wrong what she is doing is.


Far from off but okay. I cheated on a trig regent and I’ll never regret it. I took that regent three times, I wouldn’t be able to graduate if I didn’t pass. I don’t cheat or lie my way through anything else in life
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amother




Calendula
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:27 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
Drama queen. Did you actually read what I wrote? Or did you skim through and read 1 or two words?
How is this anti torah? I specifically said I trust that they don’t cheat.
High school girls ( some are old enough to work or enter shidduchim) should be responsible for their own actions.
And chinuch begins at home.
Again how is that anti torah?
Bothers you when I say that kids pick up habits from home? Truth is truth.


Your nasty answer just REINFORCES my post.

I wish you clarity and hadracha in life.
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:30 pm
amother [ Nasturtium ] wrote:
This is pretty shocking.

Yes, it actually is a pretty primary part of your responsibility as a teacher to prevent and watch out for cheating.

I really wonder if you're oiver on lifnai iver by not being careful. You're putting a stumbling block that there should be guardrails around.

What stumbling block? A teacher walks up and down the rows (helping and guiding students who need a little xtra) A teacher stands in back watching. A teacher announced that cheating will have a consequence. Ateacher announces that she believes and trusts in her yiddishe students that they will not cheat. She does not sit or mark tests.
So there are 35 or more girls
You really think she sees every single girls actions during the test?
You all really truly believe that girls aged 14- 18 should not be responsible for their own actions?
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:31 pm
amother [ Ruby ] wrote:
Cheating demonstrates a much larger problem with our education system than in the cheaters. Grades are being used to rate the student's value rather than to improve education.

Agree 1000%
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:35 pm
amother [ Calendula ] wrote:
Your nasty answer just REINFORCES my post.

I wish you clarity and hadracha in life.

Same to you.
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amother




Tealblue
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:39 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
Far from off but okay. I cheated on a trig regent and I’ll never regret it. I took that regent three times, I wouldn’t be able to graduate if I didn’t pass. I don’t cheat or lie my way through anything else in life


You only need to pass one math which can be Algebra 1 in order to get a Regents Diploma.
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cnc




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 3:42 pm
amother [ Tealblue ] wrote:
You only need to pass one math which can be Algebra 1 in order to get a Regents Diploma.


That might have been for your grade. In the last twenty years the requirements changed way too many times to count . You have no idea what the requirements were when that poster was in school.
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amother




Dill
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:19 pm
Cheating is ok?
wow this is weird
went to public school and no one cheated some because they would have gotten caught!
And cheaters eventually often make headlines.
Nope not ok.
Yes I would want to know.
Sorry if not all teachers are ready willing and able to handle it.
If the kids know it is not tolerated and consequences if caught and we are paying attention then there will be far less if any cheating.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:22 pm
My husband told me a great joke


A bunch of yungerleit were taking a course in Touro
By the exam they asked the NJ professor if they could pray the afternoon prayers
When he agreed, one guy went up , put on a talis and with great cavonna and hisorrirus say
Ha Sheila alef alef
Ha sheila bes bes
Ha Sheila gimmel daled
Ha Shaila daled gimmel
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amother




Chambray
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:33 pm
Its a worse midah to snitch and mind other ppls business than to be a cheater. Speaking as someone who was given the opportunity to cheat to get a degree and didnt.
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amother




Calendula
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:44 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
Same to you.


Please read all of Impatiens posts.

If this is what we have for HS ‘teachers’ these days...oy.

No wonder cheating is ‘ok’ to ignore, and ‘not their job to supervise’. Its just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, I wish you only well and definitely, PLEASE seek hadracha.

If a rav/mentor/machench/mechanes etc says your ATTITUDE, outlook and hashkafa are good and correct, please post their names. I want to make sure I don't seek advice from them either.

Much hatzlacha.
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amother




Nasturtium
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:54 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
What stumbling block? A teacher walks up and down the rows (helping and guiding students who need a little xtra) A teacher stands in back watching. A teacher announced that cheating will have a consequence. Ateacher announces that she believes and trusts in her yiddishe students that they will not cheat. She does not sit or mark tests.
So there are 35 or more girls
You really think she sees every single girls actions during the test?
You all really truly believe that girls aged 14- 18 should not be responsible for their own actions?


You said that it's not your job to look out for cheating. That's absolutely false and is a real question of lifnai iver. You are not putting reasonable safeguards and consequences. (This brings to my mind the shulchan aruch about a father not striking a child past a certain age because of lifnai iver...the child might strike the father back)

That doesn't mean that if a teacher misses something she's necessarily negligent.

Nor does it mean that a teacher can't make a judgement call in a specific situation (struggling child, family situation...) To ignore a child who's cheating.

But the casual attitude and dismissal of responsibility is alarming. Especially for someone who keeps calling them 'yiddishe girls' as if they're expected to already be finished products with full moral fortitude. As a machaneches and teacher, it's part of your job to build and encourage that moral fortitude. Not to ignore it.
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frieda967




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 4:55 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
My husband told me a great joke


A bunch of yungerleit were taking a course in Touro
By the exam they asked the NJ professor if they could pray the afternoon prayers
When he agreed, one guy went up , put on a talis and with great cavonna and hisorrirus say
Ha Sheila alef alef
Ha sheila bes bes
Ha Sheila gimmel daled
Ha Shaila daled gimmel


I don’t appreciate this racist joke.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:05 pm
frieda967 wrote:
I don’t appreciate this racist joke.


Are you lost little girl Sad

This isnt twitter or huffington post
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:12 pm
amother [ Calendula ] wrote:
Please read all of Impatiens posts.

If this is what we have for HS ‘teachers’ these days...oy.

No wonder cheating is ‘ok’ to ignore, and ‘not their job to supervise’. Its just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, I wish you only well and definitely, PLEASE seek hadracha.

If a rav/mentor/machench/mechanes etc says your ATTITUDE, outlook and hashkafa are good and correct, please post their names. I want to make sure I don't seek advice from them either.

Much hatzlacha.

You still have not answered my question- how is it not toradig?
These are my points:
I trust my students will not cheat. I believe in them.
Parents need to be mechanech their own children and not throw the fault of bad middos on teachers. Plenty comes from home-
Students should be responsible for their own actions and middos when they are in high school.
Students should be aware that actions have consequences.

(And btw- I can’t begin to tell you how many times teachers pick up the pieces that the students break into at home. And then get yelled at and blamed for not doing enough. Plenty of parents drop the ball. But that is for another topic and thread.)
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:16 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
You still have not answered my question- how is it not toradig?
These are my points:
I trust my students will not cheat. I believe in them.
Parents need to be mechanech their own children and not throw the fault of bad middos on teachers. Plenty comes from home-
Students should be responsible for their own actions and middos when they are in high school.
Students should be aware that actions have consequences.

(And btw- I can’t begin to tell you how many times teachers pick up the pieces that the students break into at home. And then get yelled at and blamed for not doing enough. Plenty of parents drop the ball. But that is for another topic and thread.)


Lady, whether my daughter snitches or not has zero to do with your lack of basic hashkafa and ethics as a human being who is supposed to me a role model for our girls. Oy lanu if this is who our role models have become. Olam hafuch ra'isi....
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:24 pm
amother [ Nasturtium ] wrote:
You said that it's not your job to look out for cheating. That's absolutely false and is a real question of lifnai iver. You are not putting reasonable safeguards and consequences. (This brings to my mind the shulchan aruch about a father not striking a child past a certain age because of lifnai iver...the child might strike the father back)

That doesn't mean that if a teacher misses something she's necessarily negligent.

Nor does it mean that a teacher can't make a judgement call in a specific situation (struggling child, family situation...) To ignore a child who's cheating.

But the casual attitude and dismissal of responsibility is alarming. Especially for someone who keeps calling them 'yiddishe girls' as if they're expected to already be finished products with full moral fortitude. As a machaneches and teacher, it's part of your job to build and encourage that moral fortitude. Not to ignore it.

Ah. I see where the problem is. I was reacting to the op who stated that
her dd wanted to tell the teacher that there were cheaters- and telling to teachers to proctor more during tests- as if the teacher did not know how to do her job. This idea that parents have, that teachers are brainless, and don’t know how to do their jobs gets me mad. Of course I keep an eye on the girls. Of course I walk around. Of course I look at the girls work. But cheating will occur, and chinuch begins at home. And parents have alot to answer for their childrens’ behavior. And as for your comment that they are not finished product- maybe in 9th or tenth grade.
But 17-18 year old girls? No I should not have to breathe down their neck to remind them not to cheat.
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:29 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Lady, whether my daughter snitches or not has zero to do with your lack of basic hashkafa and ethics as a human being who is supposed to me a role model for our girls. Oy lanu if this is who our role models have become. Olam hafuch ra'isi....

Still not answering my points.
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 16 2022, 5:30 pm
I feel so naive. This thread makes it sound like cheating is common in our frum schools. I find this hard to believe and swallow. I know that the opportunity might come up for some girls and they may or may not pass that test, but it can’t be excused or brushed away.

Op, your daughter shouldn’t be the cheating police, but let her know that although it seems unfair, the truth is her work ethic and honesty puts her way ahead.
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