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Is there any hope for my son?
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amother




Coffee
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:33 pm
sequoia wrote:
Why is it considered good for a teenage boy to be surrounded exclusively by other teenage boys and not seeing his parents, siblings, or extended family for months on end? How does that promote... anything?

Seriously? So not the point. Rolling Eyes
The only one promoting things is you promoting your anti- RW yeshivish agenda.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:38 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Seriously? So not the point. Rolling Eyes
The only one promoting things is you promoting your anti- RW yeshivish agenda.
Huh? She is not the only one who asked this here or mentioned it. And it is not only a RW thing. Dorming is in many different walks of life. Can't Believe It
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amother




Coffee
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:40 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Huh? She is not the only one who asked this here or mentioned it. And it is not only a RW thing. Dorming is in many different walks of life. Can't Believe It

Regardless of that. Why can't people stay on topic? How is that supposed to help OP now after the fact?
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:48 pm
sequoia wrote:
Why is it considered good for a teenage boy to be surrounded exclusively by other teenage boys and not seeing his parents, siblings, or extended family for months on end? How does that promote... anything?


I've heard Rabbi Noach Orlowek say that if the home is a solid home (and he didn't say anything about 2 parents IIRC) and the local option is decent, even if not perfect, it's better for the boys to be home.
But there are very valid reasons for sending boys away. The local options might be too far from optimal. The yeshiva is close enough that the boy can come home monthly or so/parents can drive in on a Sunday (father daven with the yeshiva, etc.).
It can work and children can flourish.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:52 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
This brokenhearted mother has recently been made aware that my older teenager son, who's in yeshiva away from home, was until recently a very ehrliche boy, has made some changes, got himself a smartphone, into shmutz. Not really davening or learning etc.
I am shocked and devastated and trying to figure out where we go from here. What made him change course etc.
I am also looking for chizuk. Can anyone tell me - can my son get back on track with the right help - and regain his purity and ehrlichkeit and love for yiddishkeit? Or is my child now ruined inside, having been exposed to who knows how much garbage.


I’m so sorry, that’s heartbreaking. But this is exactly why I’m so against this crazy trend of sending children away to dorm. I refuse to do that with my kids. I’ve heard too many stories if what goes on in dorms and it’s not good, obviously your son was influenced by other boys.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:53 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Regardless of that. Why can't people stay on topic? How is that supposed to help OP now after the fact?
I started a spin off.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:56 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Seriously? So not the point. Rolling Eyes
The only one promoting things is you promoting your anti- RW yeshivish agenda.


Baloney! We are very RW yeshivish and I know for a fact what goes on in dorms isn’t good. In the most RW yeshivish dorms.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 7:57 pm
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Regardless of that. Why can't people stay on topic? How is that supposed to help OP now after the fact?


Hopefully it’ll help others not to make the same mistake!
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amother




Hyacinth
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 8:06 pm
Unconditional love. Truly unconditional, regardless of whether he has a smartphone or has seen things you wish he hadn't. Make sure he knows.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 8:06 pm
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
Hopefully it’ll help others not to make the same mistake!


How dare you imply that its the mothers fault that this happened to her son?!
Mistake?
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amother




Sienna
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 8:16 pm
He made a bad mistake in a weak moment and one thing led to the next. Now he feels bad about himself and can’t even focus on learning and has no desire to daven. He’s going lower and lower and doesn’t really want to be where he is now. If you don’t show anger and disappointment he will come back. He needs to feel cared for and accepted even though he made mistakes. There are people who are experts in dealing with this because unfortunately this happens more often than you know. Is the yeshiva able to help you? If not, some of the names that were given here are very good.
3 things you can do now-
1- try to get him help from an experienced person (or get help for yourself so you can help him)
2- daven extra just for him to have his yiras shamayim back and that he should live the life of a Ben Torah with menuchas hanefesh (yes, this could happen with your tefillos)
3- don’t show him that you are angry at him even if deep down you really are. Let him know that you realize things might be confusing for him and you want to try to make things easier because he deserves a good life. Tell him that you love him and care about him very much.

Don’t expect overnight change. Rejoice at baby steps. It will take time but he will probably come back once he gets out of this rut.
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 8:43 pm
amother [ Cornsilk ] wrote:
I agree with everything you said except he should go to FISCHERS!!
Perfect place for boys like this it’s mamish the best place ever

My son has been to Waterbury, then imrei and ended up @ fischers and really grew alot during that time. Fischers was a great year!! Unfortunately ,he isn't frum at this point a few years later, and is trying to find his connection to G-d. He is angry at the religious world and feels that he experienced trauma growing up religious. I agree that the phone does begin the downward trajectory, but its like a medication to soothe whats bothering them and not necessarily a thing that started the problem. He did start getting into the phone and other stuff while away in Yeshiva, but it likely would have happened at some point.
OP I can only say I feel what you are going through as all the imas who have posted here can identify with you as well. I daven daily for my son, my children and for all of the the children of klal yisroel who have lost their way! May we be zoche to see yeshuos soon!
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amother




Clematis
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 9:56 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
This. I never understand why high school KIDS "need" to dorm.


OP said older teenager. I assumed she meant post high school.

Which is a pretty normal age for kids to leave home.
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mommy9




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 11:41 pm
sequoia wrote:
Why is it considered good for a teenage boy to be surrounded exclusively by other teenage boys and not seeing his parents, siblings, or extended family for months on end? How does that promote... anything?


If you knew Jewish history you would know that we Jews have been sending our sons away from home to learn Torah for a few thousand years. Overall it's been pretty successful.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 11:51 pm
Teach your son the Posuk that a TZADDIK Falls Seven Times - but the Tzaddik does not GIVE UP.
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amother




Sienna
 

Post Sat, Jan 22 2022, 11:59 pm
sequoia wrote:
Why is it considered good for a teenage boy to be surrounded exclusively by other teenage boys and not seeing his parents, siblings, or extended family for months on end? How does that promote... anything?


This is done for the sake of creating a ben Torah. For the most part it’s a wonderful thing to have boys learning in Yeshiva. Most older boys come home every month for a long weekend to spend quality time with the family. Younger boys might go home more often. They are also home for all the yomim tovim.
These days with cell phones and UPS they are well connected with home and receive packages regularly.
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amother




Jade
 

Post Sun, Jan 23 2022, 2:42 am
https://youtu.be/ypyxuwszzp8

Rabbi S Taub on unconditional love AND unconditional pride. A must -see
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amother




Cinnamon
 

Post Sun, Jan 23 2022, 2:46 am
There is always hope. I would definitely try to open up lines of communication, see how he is doing, what he is experiencing...
Open communication is key. See what is going on. Is it worse than a phone? Depending on how you reacted to that news he might not want to share what else he has been experimenting with or trying out. Smoking. Pot. Alcohol. Harder drugs like xanax, opioid pain pills, psychoactive substances is LSD or ecstacy. Yes. Even in the best yeshivos. And yes, pot can easily lead down to some of these other drugs. I work in the field and most say they started with pot, it soon became not enough (because of body tolerance or traumas from using) and then slowly they try out different things.
Dorming isnt easy. For some kids it is the wrong thing. No matter the circle, the school, the family... not every kid is fine in a dormitory setting. Drugs can happen at home too. This isnt a blame on a dorm, just that you might not as easily catch on.
Or maybe he is trying other things out. Gambling?
Maybe he has mental health or emotional stuff going on? Stress, anxiety, peer pressure? Maybe yeshiva isnt the right place for him? This one or any other one? Not every kid is cut out for yeshiva just like not every kid is meant to be a doctor, lawyer etc. Different things for different types if boys. Nothing to do with frumkeit. Not everyone is cookie cutter.
A phone could be it or it could be a symptom and he is not sure what else he can safely share.

And there is always hope. Remember that. Some of the best kids go through a rough patch and are fine. Some kids swerve on the road of life and get back on the same highway. Sometimes they take an offramp for a detour. And sometimes they take an equally good scenic route. And still be a good person.
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sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 23 2022, 5:52 am
mommy9 wrote:
If you knew Jewish history you would know that we Jews have been sending our sons away from home to learn Torah for a few thousand years. Overall it's been pretty successful.


No we haven’t. They were needed on the farm, store, family business, etc.

At no point in history could most or many families get by without the help of young men.

If you mean “extremely wealthy people who were also super religious,” that’s a very small category.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 23 2022, 7:28 am
sequoia wrote:
No we haven’t. They were needed on the farm, store, family business, etc.

At no point in history could most or many families get by without the help of young men.

If you mean “extremely wealthy people who were also super religious,” that’s a very small category.


They were needed on the farm. Or the more contemporary equivalent of my American born grandfather who quit high school to help support his family. And was never to far from his beloved Soncino gemara. And who was so happy to be able to give his son the gift of not just a high school diploma, and the option to go to college, but the opportunity to learn fulltime after h.s. which he did for 10 years.
No one would think of a teenager being held back from getting a h.s. diploma and advanced learning is the same thing.
And some people send their kids away for h.s. davka because they want a strong general studies curriculum too.
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