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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 2:47 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Being a mensch is calling them when you give birth, is giving them a kavod at the bris possibly.

It is not naming your children for someone else.

Would you say the same thing if it was your neighbor who requested what you call your child?


There is no Commandment to Honor your Neighbor.

You really think PARENTS are in the same category as neighbors???
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 2:55 am
#BestBubby wrote:
There is no Commandment to Honor your Neighbor.

You really think PARENTS are in the same category as neighbors???


1) That poster said to do it to be a mentsch - not because of kibdud av vaim. That's what I was responding to.

2) Kibud Av Vaim is a halacha and has halachic parameters. It's not whatever you or I think or feel like it should mean. My Rav says that baby naming doesn't fall under kibud av vaim.

Honoring your parents doesn't equal doing whatever they want.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 2:57 am
WitchKitty wrote:
It's not, though. It's the parents who brought you up. As long as they don't start telling your friends about the full name, only theirs, I would be happy to oblige. They've given up on countless things for me.


That's on you - no one else should be forced to do so. Personally I'd tell my parents they are welcome to call the baby by both names, but I don't want to.

But no one should feel like they have to name or call their children something for anyone else.
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ImmaBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:22 am
Reading these posts makes me so sad for all of you that have gone through this. My husband and I have never gotten involved in any discussion about names for our grandchildren unless asked, and if we were asked we then respected what they decided.
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WhatFor




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:30 am
AMothe wrote:
I feel like with many areas in life it’s a choice you make between being right and being a mentch. You can be annoyed about it and stick to calling him the second name and you have the right, but then there’s thinking beyond what’s “my right” and about your relationship with them in the long run. I think it’s nice of them to ask you to call both names only in front of them. How often are you with them and how often are you going to say the child’s name to them? I feel like it’ll just make them feel respected and cared for, and will only do good for the long term.

I have a relative who does this, and it works out nicely! To most of us they call her one name, and in front of one set of grandparents they’ll say both names. I think it’s so sensitive of them.


The problem with this simple response is that it assumes you're dealing with healthy reasonable people. Healthy, reasonable people don't get upset that you didn't name a grandchild exactly what they wanted, and they don't demand that you call your own child by a particular name. If they're doing that, they aren't healthy.

With people like this, entitled people who don't have boundaries, the more you try to appease, the more they demand. You need to firmly establish your boundaries or it's just going to be worse and worse. There's nothing inconsistent between calling your child the name you chose and mentchlichkeit. What's not mentchlich is demanding someone else call their child a name of your choice.
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AMothe




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:46 am
LovesHashem wrote:
Being a mensch is calling them when you give birth, is giving them a kavod at the bris possibly.

It is not naming your children for someone else.

Would you say the same thing if it was your neighbor who requested what you call your child?


She doesn’t say in her post that they asked her to name the child. They’re only asking to use the other (or both) name(s) in front of them. Yes, I personally think it’s just being a mentch, thinking a little out of your box just to make someone else happy.
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AMothe




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:47 am
WitchKitty wrote:
It's not, though. It's the parents who brought you up. As long as they don't start telling your friends about the full name, only theirs, I would be happy to oblige. They've given up on countless things for me.


Exactly what you said. 👌
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AMothe




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:51 am
WhatFor wrote:
The problem with this simple response is that it assumes you're dealing with healthy reasonable people. Healthy, reasonable people don't get upset that you didn't name a grandchild exactly what they wanted, and they don't demand that you call your own child by a particular name. If they're doing that, they aren't healthy.

With people like this, entitled people who don't have boundaries, the more you try to appease, the more they demand. You need to firmly establish your boundaries or it's just going to be worse and worse. There's nothing inconsistent between calling your child the name you chose and mentchlichkeit. What's not mentchlich is demanding someone else call their child a name of your choice.


How do you know they’re not healthy? She didn’t say they demanded, from her post it doesn’t sound negative at all. To me it sounds like they kindly asked if only in front of them the child can be called by the full name.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 3:52 am
AMothe wrote:
She doesn’t say in her post that they asked her to name the child. They’re only asking to use the other (or both) name(s) in front of them. Yes, I personally think it’s just being a mentch, thinking a little out of your box just to make someone else happy.


The key here is that these parents didn't nicely ask "We love both names, could we call x by both and you do it around us?"

They seem to be very upset that OP decided to not use both. Being very upset is an abnormal reaction and I wonder what else is lying beneath this request.

Personally I'd find it very annoying and would keep forgetting to call my child a different name in front of someone else.
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amother




Milk
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:28 am
LovesHashem wrote:


They seem to be very upset that OP decided to not use both. Being very upset is an abnormal reaction and I wonder what else is lying beneath this request.


There are people who dream for months or years about a child called after their father/mother/grandfather etc. Hearing the name called is a clim@x for them. It gives them some level of nechama. When they discover that the name is not being used, it can be very painful. They want to hear the child being called by that name. I don't think it's such an abnormal reaction in some cases.
I was involved with someone who called a child after a great grandfather not a grandfather and her mother dissolved into tears at the bris. She did her best to smile, to join in the simcha, she's a great mother, a great mother in law but she was in pain at the loss of a parent and she'd been looking forward to it.
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amother




Milk
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:29 am
That auto-correct is hilarious!
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:01 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
There are people who dream for months or years about a child called after their father/mother/grandfather etc. Hearing the name called is a clim@x for them. It gives them some level of nechama. When they discover that the name is not being used, it can be very painful. They want to hear the child being called by that name. I don't think it's such an abnormal reaction in some cases.
I was involved with someone who called a child after a great grandfather not a grandfather and her mother dissolved into tears at the bris. She did her best to smile, to join in the simcha, she's a great mother, a great mother in law but she was in pain at the loss of a parent and she'd been looking forward to it.


But why are they expecting that in the first place?

There's lots of things you can do to bring nechama that don't involve expecting others to give you nechama. This reminds me of parents who feel like it's their right to have nachas or that their kid grows up to be exactly like them, or go in the career path they dreamed of.
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amother




Melon
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:13 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
There are people who dream for months or years about a child called after their father/mother/grandfather etc. Hearing the name called is a clim@x for them. It gives them some level of nechama. When they discover that the name is not being used, it can be very painful. They want to hear the child being called by that name. I don't think it's such an abnormal reaction in some cases.
I was involved with someone who called a child after a great grandfather not a grandfather and her mother dissolved into tears at the bris. She did her best to smile, to join in the simcha, she's a great mother, a great mother in law but she was in pain at the loss of a parent and she'd been looking forward to it.


As a grandmother, I dream for months that the baby will be born healthy and grow לתורה לחופה ולמעשים טובים. When I hear the name, I always say how beautiful it is. Period, full stop.
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amother




Zinnia
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:16 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
There are people who dream for months or years about a child called after their father/mother/grandfather etc. Hearing the name called is a clim@x for them. It gives them some level of nechama. When they discover that the name is not being used, it can be very painful. They want to hear the child being called by that name. I don't think it's such an abnormal reaction in some cases.
I was involved with someone who called a child after a great grandfather not a grandfather and her mother dissolved into tears at the bris. She did her best to smile, to join in the simcha, she's a great mother, a great mother in law but she was in pain at the loss of a parent and she'd been looking forward to it.


They never should have felt entitled to it. It’s not how life works unless they are the one giving birth.
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LovesHashem




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:19 am
amother [ Zinnia ] wrote:
They never should have felt entitled to it. It’s not how life works unless they are the one giving birth.


Yup. My parents told me that they will not interfere at all, as my mother put it: "I had my chance to pick out the names for my kids, and this is your chance."
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:23 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
There are people who dream for months or years about a child called after their father/mother/grandfather etc. Hearing the name called is a clim@x for them. It gives them some level of nechama. When they discover that the name is not being used, it can be very painful. They want to hear the child being called by that name. I don't think it's such an abnormal reaction in some cases.
I was involved with someone who called a child after a great grandfather not a grandfather and her mother dissolved into tears at the bris. She did her best to smile, to join in the simcha, she's a great mother, a great mother in law but she was in pain at the loss of a parent and she'd been looking forward to it.


Their hopes are completely misplaced.
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amother




Puce
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:34 am
Wow reading this thread makes me feel so validated since I'm going through the same exact thing right now! BH we were blessed with a baby girl a few months ago and my DH and I chose a name that was meaningful to us and now his grandfather will not talk to us since we had the "chutzpah" to not "consult him" over which name to give our child, he had expected us to name after DH's grandmother that was nifteres a few months before the birth of our daughter, but we chose a different name for many valid reasons. Now, not only will the grandfather not talk to us, but he has dragged my FIL over to his side, to the point where FIL told DH last night, citing a conversation he had with a well-known Rebbe (btw we are not chassidish) that it's a shame he made such a "mistake" and gave our child the "wrong name"...
It seems the next step is an expensive Orlando Pesach retreat for the entire extended family, all expenses paid by the grandfather... besides for us, who are cordially uninvited since we no longer deserve to be part of the family...

ETA that we are still (and were, all along) planning on naming after the grandmother in the future IYH, and both the grandfather and my FIL are fully aware of that.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 8:23 am
Your baby, your choice. Your in-laws don't get to decide what you call your baby; that's your prerogative. They should be glad you used the name at all, seeing how you dislike it. You were under no obligation to do so. You could have done what many people do, which is use a name with the same initial, or a different name that sounds similar, or a different name that has the same or similar meaning, but you chose to use the same name. That's pretty big of you. That's the name that'll be used every time he gets an aliyah, and the name that'll be on the ketubah he gives to his future wife. There's no reason for you to force yourself to use a name you dislike just because your inlaws are around.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 8:24 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
it's a shame he made such a "mistake" and gave our child the "wrong name"...


I guess he's unaware of the tradition that parents have ruach hakodesh when naming their children.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 8:26 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Their hopes are completely misplaced.


Quite. It's like writing a contract that places an obligation on a party who is not a signatory to the contract.
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