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Is this the norm in first grade (reading)

 
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:14 pm
My first grade daughter has to be timed both in kria and English in Kria they have a paragraph they had to read 3 times. And we had to stop after a minute. Kria program just finished and now we have Same with English. The trouble is my daughter doesn't read so fast, she's b"h not struggling but she finishes a few lines before the end. She insist I mark off thst she finished the whole page. I told her I will not lie. She therefore Insist I retire so she could get faster until the end . Usually after about 10 times she gets it. I have told the teacher the problem and the teacher spoke to the class telling them they don't need to finish the whole page. As a mother what can I do about this? As a first grader she's not always very truthful so she will just fill in the paper at the end? Is it the norm to time read first grade? In kria or reading?- I think its sight words? They seem to young and a terrible sore loser
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amother




Tulip
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:34 pm
Speaking as someone who was both a first grade teacher and reading specialist, it is definitely normal to have timed reading / timed reading homework in first grade for both kriah and English. Most of the time (and seemingly in this situation too, based on the teacher's announcement to the class) the expectation is that the children will read for a certain amount of time, not necessarily complete the entire assigned text within that amount of time.

Has your daughter's perspective on the matter changed since the teacher spoke to the class?
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BubblyBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:38 pm
I heard that an old rebbe did this in 60s for k'ria: time the students.

But I don't think it's a good method, especially not for k'ria, because children get the message that it's all about velocity, the quicker, the better, when it really is about kavana.

Furthermore, I don't think it helps in the process of learning to read. The child should learn to read what is written there, even if it takes time, rather than go quickly and make mistakes, read something else.

If the teacher wants the reading to become more fluent, they could go over the same text a few times, and introduce a kind of rhythm at the second or third repetition, once the child already knows what is written there.

If it is not about reading quickly, but just about limiting the time a student has to spend practicing, the student should feel free to take longer and finish the text or the page... I don't think it's a good idea, as far as the functionality of reading is concerned, to just stop because time is over... That's not what reading is about.

So maybe you can allow your daughter to finish her page, especially if she wants to, even if it takes longer than the set amount of time, and praise her for her perseverance?
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amother




Catmint
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:43 pm
BubblyBubby wrote:
I heard that an old rebbe did this in 60s for k'ria: time the students.

But I don't think it's a good method, especially not for k'ria, because children get the message that it's all about velocity, the quicker, the better, when it really is about kavana.


Kriya in the beginning is definitely NOT about kavana. Most kids will not learn what the words they are saying mean till much later on. The point is just to reach them to read.
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amother




Bellflower
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:43 pm
Timed is normal tell her the goal is to get her word per minute up and not finish the page. Show her how her numbers go up and tell her to try beating herself.
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BubblyBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 6:47 pm
amother [ Catmint ] wrote:
Kriya in the beginning is definitely NOT about kavana. Most kids will not learn what the words they are saying mean till much later on. The point is just to reach them to read.


I meant: K'ria is the first step in learning to daven. Davening is about kavana, it's not a race.
So it sends a wrong message if they learn to race in k'ria, this might become a habit in davening.

Neither is it a good idea to pressure children to go quickly, at the expense of precision. They should tak the time they need to read what is written there and not come up with something else because they are under pressure.

Also: they should also understand what they read, even when they just start out reading.

I understand that just the process of being able to read might be exciting for children, but to keep up interest, it's useful that they understand what they read.

If they spend hours and hours just reading, without understanding, that might not be very motivating.
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:00 pm
Yes, it's normal. It's about building fluency and tracking the rate of reading. Sounds like a repeated reading that is being timed.You can tell her, it's just a fun way to keep track of how far she is able to get in the passage and that you will mark it down each night so she can see how much farther she gets the next time etc. And that it's ok if she doesn't get to the end of the passage in the time given. Make it exciting the next night when she sees she read 1 line further or by the end of the week when she hopefully was able to progress even further.
Eta: it's just a short timed read, not hours and hours, and is a valid approach for teaching fluency to beginning or struggling readers (certified reading specialist here).
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BubblyBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:04 pm
Why not use a metronome, a beat, rather than timing? this would encourage regularity...
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:08 pm
BubblyBubby wrote:
Why not use a metronome, a beat, rather than timing? this would further regularity...

Because it's about measuring the rate of reading. That's one way or rather one part of what is involved with assessing a student's reading level, fluency is how many words can they read correctly per minute. Decoding is part of that, too, which would be measured by analyzing phonetic errors during the reading.

(And comprehension is different measure and uses a different way to assess.)
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post Mon, Jan 24 2022, 7:21 pm
BubblyBubby wrote:
If it is an assessment of fluency, they don't need to do it all the time, every day, at home and in.

It's more than just assessments, it is also building up their fluency. It takes time and daily practice. Just about every intervention program I've used included this sort of daily practice. I've caught struggling readers up to grade level using these sorts of methods when they were reading 2 grade levels below. In my experience, it is very effective for those students who need that extra fluency practice.
In this case, op's daughter sounds a bit anxious and perfectionist about what she thinks the teacher is looking for, that she needs to complete the entire passage in that time. That's why my advice to op was to reassure her daughter that it is ok if she doesn't and to make it exciting and fun to track her progress. It shouldn't be stressful or anxiety producing if done right.
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BubblyBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 7:12 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:
It's more than just assessments, it is also building up their fluency. It takes time and daily practice. Just about every intervention program I've used included this sort of daily practice. I've caught struggling readers up to grade level using these sorts of methods when they were reading 2 grade levels below. In my experience, it is very effective for those students who need that extra fluency practice.
In this case, op's daughter sounds a bit anxious and perfectionist about what she thinks the teacher is looking for, that she needs to complete the entire passage in that time. That's why my advice to op was to reassure her daughter that it is ok if she doesn't and to make it exciting and fun to track her progress. It shouldn't be stressful or anxiety producing if done right.


Maybe this could be a good exercise for some students in a one on one setting, where you can exactly see what the student is up to and how it impacts him.

I don't think it is a good idea for a whole class, and even less if done systematically, exactly because of the problem OP points out with her daughter.

I am sure that you can find students like OP's daughter in every class. Or students that will just invent something to be quick enough. Or students who get completely blocked under pressure.

To me, this method seems way past obsolete (except for very precise situations where you know exactly what you do).

Also: an important part of reading is pausing at the right moment. The idea of quick reading goes against that too...
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 7:33 am
I should call the teacher and tell her that it's stressing out your daughter and you're going to write that she did the whole page every day. Of course you can keep count and every few weeks or months relate the progress to the teacher to make sure she's doing ok. Also tell your daughter that her teacher says that it's fine to write that she did the whole page because it's very hard. Homework should be fun and easy at this age. Stress free.

P.s. have a kid who struggles and it took me a long time to learn to stick up for him.
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amother




Copper
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 7:37 am
excellent idea behappy2
agree completely
the goal is for your daughter to read and become proficient
you know your daughter best
easy for teacher to accommodate this
hugs and hatzlocha
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amother




Mimosa
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 7:47 am
I see this from both sides my one son was the fastest reader in his class and fluent. My next one is a slow reader but a very smart kid. He's in 5th grade now and he still reads slowly but he's very confident.
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GoldFlowers




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 8:01 am
I never liked the timed reading. The goal is for a child to read fluently and timed reading is one way to measure that goal but trying to speed read doesn’t make you more fluent. I’m an adult and can read perfectly and still can’t read out loud quickly.

I’d let her read the whole page, however long it takes her. You can write down her time or just sign that she did it and mention it to her teacher if it comes up. She’s your daughter and she’s in first grade, you do what works for you.
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amother




Stone
 

Post Wed, Jan 26 2022, 9:05 am
I have a daughter in first grade now and I was a reading specialist in my past lifetime. I don't find this a good method for a fist grader. I'm all for repeated readings to build up fluency but most kids get stressed out from timers. My daughter hasn't had this type of hw this year though I remember my other kids having such reading exercises in second or third grade. I'm not into it at any age, but especially in first grade, I would skip it.
People gave good ideas here to work it out with the teacher. How do you feel about reaching out to her and coming up with something more suitable for your daughter?
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