Excuse me if this is repetitive, but...

Choirmistress

Fri, Feb 04 2022, 3:20 am

...I am still stuck on a few problematic phrases in two Ofra Haza songs that are preventing me from finishing and posting singable translations on any website.
The problem is that some of the phrases don't translate literally; I can't contact the lyricists directly; and I need somebody with an idiomatic knowledge of Hebrew.
Any mumchah here? I would send you a list of the problematic phrases.
The two songs I want to finish translating are Mechapesset Derech and Meshorer Harechov.

Choirmistress

Fri, Feb 04 2022, 11:26 am

Hi, lone (so far) respondent.
Did you not figure out from the fact that I was using the word myself that I knew the meaning of mumchah?
Not very helpful. Nobody has yet answered my query, which has several lines' worth of text that I would send as soon as somebody who IS an expert responds.
Thanks anyway for your input.

amother

Hotpink

Sat, Feb 05 2022, 7:40 pm

Choirmistress wrote:

Woah. How about be nice? Maybe she misunderstood your question, but she did try to help.

amother

Indigo

Sat, Feb 05 2022, 7:41 pm

Choirmistress wrote:

Rude

Choirmistress

Sat, Feb 05 2022, 11:47 pm

To Khaki:
My apologies.
To the next two respondents:
You were right. I guess sometimes I do get overcritical.
To the most recent respondent, and to all others interested:
In Mechapesset Derech, the problematic phrases are:
Tamid itcha (can't be "(I'm) always with you"; more like, "where you're concerned, it's always the case that...");
L'orko shel yom can't be "for the length of the day"; is it more like "eternally"?
Kol kach shelcha can't be "so yours"; more like "It is so like/typical of you"?
T'shalev: is it with a vet to mean "will join, insert, fit together", or a vav to mean "put at ease, make peaceful/tranquil, quiet"?
(Last word of final verse:) Hishtaneh: isn't this a typo by the original lyric publishers, and meant to be "yishtaneh", in future tense?
In Meshorer Harechov, the problematic phrases are:
Second line: is it "tzim'oncha" with a sh'va or "tzimaoncha" with a kamatz?
Third line: Of which of the two is the listener/reader the only one to know the taste: "your thirst", or "the sun"?
Chorus: "hanicheihu bein einecha" can't be literally "Take it, put it between your eyes".
"hu holeich el toch chayecha" also can't be literally "Because it goes into your life".
Second verse: Is "b'derech ain motzei" "On a road nobody can find"?!
Well, folks, that's about it. Without the above problems put into less literal and more idiomatic terms, I can't finish my singable translations. Any help out there?
Thanks in advance.

amother

Anemone

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:13 am

If you cut and paste the lyrics together with your translation, we can see if you're on target. I translate academic writing from Hebrew to English, but never work with poetry, so I'm not exactly the right person for the job. In my experience, though, it doesn't work to ask for the translation of a phrase unless it's within context.

Choirmistress

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:20 am

Hi, jetblack.
Yes, I'm sure the lyrics to both songs are published, at the very least on Shironet if not other websites. I'm afraid that I seldom find any Hebrew lyrics I search for that have nekudot, and that includes the two discussed here. It was very painstaking for me to copy and past them into my MSWord format and add the nekudot, because each nekudah is a multi-key process. I first convert the online version from the computer font into the Hebrew section of Times New Roman. That's the easy part.
Regards, shavuah tov, and thanks in advance.

amother

Molasses

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:21 am

Why can't you be in touch with them directly? Is this not an authorized translation? In which case, are you allowed to publicize it on web sites?

Either way, I agree that context is essential, especially since in many cases you are rejecting the most obvious translations. Maybe a link to an official site. Many people here aren't so familiar with her songs.

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:25 am

Hebrew for adults is very rarely written with Nekudot. Anyone who speaks or reads adult-level Hebrew should have no problem with that.

Do you have an actual link to the lyrics? You're asking us for a favor, maybe make it easier for us to help you!

And I hope you don't find this offensive, but perhaps you should have a Hebrew-speaker look over your translations. I consider some of the phrases you are having trouble with to be pretty basic, so I'd be concerned that you may have misunderstood some other phrases as more literal than intended.

Choirmistress

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:28 am

amother [ Anemone ] wrote:

Sorry, anemone, but I don't know how to attach my MSWord files with my Hebrew and English on a single sheet each. Clicking on the paper clip icon above this text input block refers only to emails, so I don't know how to do it with files.
However, if you can find (and download/print) the two songs online, you will know where the problematic phrases are in the context of the whole song.

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:32 am

Choirmistress wrote:

You don't need to attach the file, just post the text.

Open the Word files on your computer.
Press CTRL-A to highlight the entire text of the file.
Press CTRL-C to copy it to your computer's virtual clipboard.
Open to the "post a reply" page on Imamother.
Click in the text box.
Press CTRL-V to paste the text.

Choirmistress

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:40 am

amother [ Molasses ] wrote:

Be in touch with WHOM directly? I have searched in vain for contact info for the two lyricists listed. If I had had contact info I would have been able to ask them directly what they meant by their lyrics. There IS no authorized translation. My unauthorized singable version would be the first. And whom would/should I contact to have it authorized?
In fact, all of the translations I have done (singable versions, to/from up to four languages) are not authorized. I can tell you that the ladies to whom I distributed photocopies preferred my version of "Jerusalem of Gold" over the "official" translation.
Regards and a gutte voch.

Choirmistress

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:50 am

Wow, Jetblack. That's a lot of steps, but it sounds simple enough to follow. Thanks. If those interested don't manage to find the lyrics on a Hebrew lyrics website themselves within the next several hours (hey, I need some sleep myself!), then I will follow those steps, which I have managed to scribble down in the last few minutes. Thanks again.

Choirmistress

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 3:58 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Sorry, no, I don't have an actual link. I went to Shironet, copied the lyrics, pasted them into an MSWord file, then changed the font and added the nekudot.
No, I don't find your advice offensive, because that is exactly what I would have done if I HAD a friend or acquaintance in Toronto who is a sufficiently (I.e., idiomatically) fluent hebraphone. If you think some of the phrases I found problematic to be "pretty basic", then maybe your understanding of them is all I may need to finish my translation! :-)
Again, regards and a shavuah tov.

DrMom

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 4:04 am

Choirmistress wrote:

I found English translations by just googling:

Ofra Haza lyrics English Mechapesset Derech
Ofra Haza lyrics English Meshorer Harechov

Have you tried that? Were the translations adequate?

amother

Yarrow

Sun, Feb 06 2022, 5:52 am

Choirmistress wrote:

Why would you need nekudot? As someone said upthread, Hebrew for anyone over grade 3 is rarely written with nekudot.