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Polio Vaccine for the Unvaccinated
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amother




Apricot
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 4:34 pm
Hi, just want to say I don't understand when people chose not to vaccinate why they don't have a plan of what to do if someone gets sick. I mean, B"H, most of these diseases kids are being vaccinated for are rare (and before someone shouts, "yeah, because majority of people are vaccinating for them" - that's another debate for another time) but it's rather foolish not to have a doctor you trust who is prepared to treat kids effectively if kids do become ill.

Deciding whether or not to vaccine our children was one of the hardest parenting decisions DH and I ever had to make. A lot of research went into our choice, and part of it was having a contingency plan so if suddenly there is an outbreak of measles, or polio, or whatever we're not left wringing our hands wondering "now what?" and being filled with regret.
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 4:49 pm
Isn’t there a polio outbreak in UK now?
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English3




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 4:51 pm
amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:
Isn’t there a polio outbreak in UK now?

The vaccine strain.
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amother




Lightyellow
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 5:04 pm
I don’t understand something. If a parent is anti vaxx, why would there being an outbreak of something change their mind? Are they fundamentally anti vaxx, or only when there is no threat, because most people are vaxxed?
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amother




Poinsettia
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 5:13 pm
amother [ Lightyellow ] wrote:
I don’t understand something. If a parent is anti vaxx, why would there being an outbreak of something change their mind? Are they fundamentally anti vaxx, or only when there is no threat, because most people are vaxxed?


Because most people who are anti-vaxx have never witnessed the scourge of diseases which could theoretically by eliminated through vaccination.

They selfishly rely on "herd immunity" which means that they are betting they will never come in contact with the disease. They occasionally miscalculate like with measles because the vaccination rate in certain communities fell below what is necessary for herd immunity and those there were outbreaks among the unvaccinated.
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amother




Maize
 

Post Tue, Jun 28 2022, 6:04 pm
My friend who knows of the family told me that it was found in the sewer system near the child's house. I heard that they may have gotten it from Ukrainian refugees. The child was not vaccinated.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 2:10 am
OP what did you end up doing?

Vaccine cautious parent here who wants to get her kids vaccinated in light of the case in Rockland county and evidence of spread in the sewage.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 2:12 am
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
Hi, just want to say I don't understand when people chose not to vaccinate why they don't have a plan of what to do if someone gets sick. I mean, B"H, most of these diseases kids are being vaccinated for are rare (and before someone shouts, "yeah, because majority of people are vaccinating for them" - that's another debate for another time) but it's rather foolish not to have a doctor you trust who is prepared to treat kids effectively if kids do become ill.

Deciding whether or not to vaccine our children was one of the hardest parenting decisions DH and I ever had to make. A lot of research went into our choice, and part of it was having a contingency plan so if suddenly there is an outbreak of measles, or polio, or whatever we're not left wringing our hands wondering "now what?" and being filled with regret.
What is your contingency plan?

Most doctors will tell you there is no cure or treatment for polio or measles.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 9:12 am
amother [ Birch ] wrote:
OP what did you end up doing?

Vaccine cautious parent here who wants to get her kids vaccinated in light of the case in Rockland county and evidence of spread in the sewage.

Right now my kids all have one dose of IPV and I'm still debating my next step.
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Mommy1:)




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 9:50 am
would be nice if the WHO would step up on the polio vaccine issue and recommend strongly - perhaps financially incentivize? - countries to ONLY give the non-live version of the polio vaccine. Honestly if I lived in a country where the live version was given I would be scared to give it to my kids. Vaccine hesitancy - this is an element that can be addressed. Recognize that when the risks can be reduced or eliminated, these agencies and countries health ministries should shift to the safest option.

I wouldn't call non-vaccinating parents 'selfish' - maybe scared, maybe misinformed about some things, not misinformed about others. Actually engaging in conversation and shifting guidance to match with research would go a long way to leaving the non-vaccinating parents feeling validated, supported, heard, and perhaps they may begin to feel safe enough for some vaccinations when appropriate for them and their unique situations.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:13 am
Mommy1:) wrote:
would be nice if the WHO would step up on the polio vaccine issue and recommend strongly - perhaps financially incentivize? - countries to ONLY give the non-live version of the polio vaccine. Honestly if I lived in a country where the live version was given I would be scared to give it to my kids. Vaccine hesitancy - this is an element that can be addressed. Recognize that when the risks can be reduced or eliminated, these agencies and countries health ministries should shift to the safest option.

I wouldn't call non-vaccinating parents 'selfish' - maybe scared, maybe misinformed about some things, not misinformed about others. Actually engaging in conversation and shifting guidance to match with research would go a long way to leaving the non-vaccinating parents feeling validated, supported, heard, and perhaps they may begin to feel safe enough for some vaccinations when appropriate for them and their unique situations.
I also really don’t understand why oral polio virus is still being used. It seems that most outbreaks these days are vaccine strain, which is so ironic.
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amother




Tangerine
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:15 am
We could all have polio without knowing.
Polio could also be regular cold symptoms.
Tiny minute percentage possibility of getting paralyzed.

Ppl in past had more reactions of the vax than disease alone.

No polio vax for my kids!
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amother




Anemone
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:18 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
We could all have polio without knowing.
Polio could also be regular cold symptoms.
Tiny minute percentage possibility of getting paralyzed.

Ppl in past had more reactions of the vax than disease alone.

No polio vax for my kids!



Too bad my paralyzed cousin caught polio before the vaccine came out. The school vaxxed all the kids at the time..mom never knew anyone with a bad reaction.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:20 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
We could all have polio without knowing.
Polio could also be regular cold symptoms.
Tiny minute percentage possibility of getting paralyzed.

Ppl in past had more reactions of the vax than disease alone.

No polio vax for my kids!


You are so completely wrong it is astounding.

Without the vaccine millions of people would have had serious complications including death or paralysis. Even people who had mild cases have had complications decades later because of neurological damage.

The only reason your children are relatively safe is because most rational people are vaccinated and therefore it is unlikely that they come in contact with the virus. That is why herd immunity means.

And vaccine for polio has been around for more than 50 years with almost zero complications so your skills as a science research from google and other half baked know nothings is dangerous in terms of spreading this kind of misinformation.
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amother




Candycane
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:27 am
amother [ Lightyellow ] wrote:
I don’t understand something. If a parent is anti vaxx, why would there being an outbreak of something change their mind? Are they fundamentally anti vaxx, or only when there is no threat, because most people are vaxxed?


THIS. If the vaccine doesnt provide benefit and is "too dangerous" then why should anything change when there is an outbreak? I know someone vehemently anti vax- we had an outbreak locally of measles some years ago but she still refused to give the vaccine to her kids. She had her principles and stuck to them.
Anyone who runs out to get a dose of a vaccine during an outbreak appears to have been running awfully close to selfishness - they are relying on herd immunity to protect themselves while lowering it at the same time...
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:32 am
amother [ Candycane ] wrote:
THIS. If the vaccine doesnt provide benefit and is "too dangerous" then why should anything change when there is an outbreak? I know someone vehemently anti vax- we had an outbreak locally of measles some years ago but she still refused to give the vaccine to her kids. She had her principles and stuck to them.
Anyone who runs out to get a dose of a vaccine during an outbreak appears to have been running awfully close to selfishness - they are relying on herd immunity to protect themselves while lowering it at the same time...
The equation changes when getting the disease is an imminent risk.
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:43 am
amother [ Birch ] wrote:
The equation changes when getting the disease is an imminent risk.


As pointed out the cost benefit changes because the person has been selfishly relying on herd immunity so when enough stupid people fail to get vaccinated there is no longer herd immunity and therefore they can no longer be selfish.

There is no cost benefit analysis in which polio vaccine presents a high risk.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:48 am
Amarante wrote:
As pointed out the cost benefit changes because the person has been selfishly relying on herd immunity so when enough stupid people fail to get vaccinated there is no longer herd immunity and therefore they can no longer be selfish.

There is no cost benefit analysis in which polio vaccine presents a high risk.
The person didn’t force others to vaccinate and create herd immunity for them. Herd immunity is a fact because other people chose to vaccinate to protect themselves. If that were not the reality, they might choose differently as well.

(Or maybe, just maybe, if we didn’t all rely on vaccines so much, science would have already figured out why in 1/200 individuals the virus gains access to the central nervous system, and for the rest of humanity polio is no worse than a cold. And we could have a targeted treatment for that particular pathway. Or vaccines for those people at risk. Pipe dreams.)
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amother




Candycane
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 11:03 am
amother [ Birch ] wrote:
The person didn’t force others to vaccinate and create herd immunity for them. Herd immunity is a fact because other people chose to vaccinate to protect themselves. If that were not the reality, they might choose differently as well.

(Or maybe, just maybe, if we didn’t all rely on vaccines so much, science would have already figured out why in 1/200 individuals the virus gains access to the central nervous system, and for the rest of humanity polio is no worse than a cold. And we could have a targeted treatment for that particular pathway. Or vaccines for those people at risk. Pipe dreams.)


Then they should assume no one vaccinated and the risk is there. However, they know that others are vaccinated and that will protect them.

And polio is not just for the "at risk". Everyone unvaccinated is at risk.
Why should they spend millions and millions on more research when there is a perfectly good vaccine that solves the issue to begin with. If everyone took the vaccine we wouldn't have outbreaks- polio was eradicated in the USA despite international travel from places that still had cases.
No research company sees the need for that. There are other diseases and illnesses that have no cure that need to be looked into first.
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amother




Birch
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 11:25 am
amother [ Candycane ] wrote:
Then they should assume no one vaccinated and the risk is there. However, they know that others are vaccinated and that will protect them.

And polio is not just for the "at risk". Everyone unvaccinated is at risk.
Why should they spend millions and millions on more research when there is a perfectly good vaccine that solves the issue to begin with. If everyone took the vaccine we wouldn't have outbreaks- polio was eradicated in the USA despite international travel from places that still had cases.
No research company sees the need for that. There are other diseases and illnesses that have no cure that need to be looked into first.
Why should they make that assumption? They aren’t forcing anyone to vaccinate. They make risk assessments based on the current facts on the ground, not theoretical realities.

And no, clearly not everyone is at risk, because 95% of cases are asymptomatic and 5% present with cold or flu symptoms. We just don’t know who is at risk because that research isn’t being done. Clearly there is some factor or a group of factors that in certain individuals allow the virus to access the nervous system, even though for most people their immune system is able to clear it just fine.

Of course pharma isn’t interested in pursuing this line of research, because it’s a lot more profitable for them to vaccinate the entire world population and keep promoting the narrative that vaccines are risk free. That’s why I said it’s a pipe dream.
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