Rav Chaim Kanievsky זצוק"ל

Roots

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 3:35 pm

absolutely devastating. my husband tore kriyah. I was crying in the kichen prepapring for shabbos. purim just stopped at that second
radio kol chai stopped the purim music and opened an open air - גל פתוח - speaking to rabbonim and MKs from the chareidi groups.

its a chessed we had shabbos to think before the levaya tomorrow.

may he be a meilitz yosher aleinu and kol am yisrael

byisrael

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 5:02 pm

I agree that this wasn't a shock

But how can anyone say this isn't a tragedy?

The Gemarah ( Eicha Raba: א:לז) says
"מצינו שסלוקן של צדיקים קשה לפני הקדוש ברוך הוא...ומחורבן בית המקדש"

If something is worse then the Churban, the destruction of the Bais Hamikdah - it is nothing but a tragedy.

Rav Chaim literally knew Torah backwards and forwards. He learned 7 daf gemarah yerushalmi and 8 daf gemarah bavli A DAY - and this is beside his daily seder in chumash, nach, shulchan aruch, and kabala. If you don't see this as a tragedy then you don't appreciate or value his Torah, and that is incredibly tragic.

The nechama is the fact that HKB"H has a plan for us, and we have other gedolim and tzadikim who will take his place, and this is the way of the world - we loose geolim and leaders and others step up to leadership positions. This as a comfort - but doesn't take away from the tragedy and loss.

DrMom

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 5:39 pm

byisrael wrote:

The reason I do not see it as tragic is because:

1. If he passed away at 25 or 50 or 60, that would be a tragedy; he should have had so many more years of scholarship ahead of him. But he was 94. It is sad when anybody passes away, but a nonagenarian -- even an immensely talented one -- passing away is far from a tragedy. Rav Chaim lived a long, fruitful, influential life. He was studying and receiving audiences up until his final days on this earth. This should be celebrated.

2. There are so people studying full-time Torah these days; more than any other time in history. It is my belief that other immensely talented scholars will rise through the ranks, just like they have done in the generations before. I believe the Torah is eternal and does not rest on the shoulders of any one scholar.

byisrael

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 5:55 pm

DrMom wrote:

1. This isn't what the gemarah holds - look it up. You realize that the Beis hamikdash was a incomparable tragedy, the loose of the opportunity to have a place where you go and experience an immeiate connection to hashem, besides for the fact that the streets of yerushalayim where filled with rivers of blood, mothers eating there children!!! (even in the Holocaust didnt have that), and still loosing tzaddikim is worse. It doesn't say unless they are zekanim, then it isn't worse.

2. There is consistant yeridas hadoros, and every dor has leaders that reflect that dor. When we loose a leader from the previous generation the replacement, will not be on the same level by default.
This explains why when it comes to psak halacha if there is a difference of opionion between a rishon and an acharon we go with the rishon. If there is a difference between an amorah and a rishon we go with the amorah....

IMH when we have a third bais hamikdash - the fact that the first two where destroyed will still be tradgedy. Having other gedolim and rabbonim doesnt take away from the loss of Rav Chaim or any of the other gedolim we have lost overthe centuries

DrMom

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 6:03 pm

byisrael wrote:

The Beit HaMikdash is not something designed with an inherently finite lifetime; people are. Not sure why you even bring it up.

If Rav Chaim had lived to 120, would his passing also be a tragedy?

I feel we are arguing semantics.

byisrael

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 6:19 pm

DrMom wrote:

Yes cause it still would be our loss! Its nothing to do with age - its what the loss is for us.

I'm bringing up the Beis hamikdash - because that is what the gemarah says - that the loss of tzaddik is worse then the loss of the Beis Hamidah - FOR US, FOR KLAL YISRAEL.
It's not a loss for him - he is in shmayim being nehana from ziv hashchina in the zchus of his greatness. It's a loss for the dor.

You say we arguing semantics but I am quoting the gemara and mefarshim and you are stating your opinion is different- which is fine. But if you want others to accept your opinion you really need to bring a source to support your opinion.

DrMom

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 6:54 pm

byisrael wrote:

You say we arguing semantics but I am quoting the gemara and mefarshim and you are stating your opinion is different- which is fine. But if you want others to accept your opinion you really need to bring a source to support your opinion.

I disagree; I think I explained my POV and my reactions pretty concisely upthread.

Also, I don't think you are persuading anybody by claiming that the loss of a 94 year old scholar at the end of his natural lifetime is worse than the Shoah, where 6 million Jewish souls, including presumably those of other Torah scholars, were cruelly murdered, many in the prime of life.

I think this is really a sick misinterpretation of commentary.

Purple2

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 11:21 pm

heidi wrote:

Hang in there
You said nothing wrong
Most of the Orthodox world agrees with you.

What in the world?? I’ve been reading the posts on Twitter from many modern orthodox people and they’ve all been devastated.
Please speak for yourself, and don’t malign modern orthodoxy who I’ve only seen have been on the same page as the Torah world. If you’ve seen different, don’t share as it doesn’t reflect well. Many modern orthodox understand choshivus hatorah, don’t embarrass them by insinuating otherwise.
The lack of kovod hatorah is so disturbing, I’m reporting this whole thread as I feel like it’s a bizayon hatorah.

DVOM

Sat, Mar 19 2022, 11:45 pm

Purple2 wrote:

What in the world am I missing? Where is the bizayon Torah? I'm not hearing anyone say they couldn't care less that Rabbi Kaminetzky died, that he wasn't a great and holy man that will be sorely missed.

All anyone said was that his death was not a tragic shock. Being that he was very elderly, this makes sense to me.

Of course, for some, this might still feel shocking. Also makes sense to me.

Please remember that there's no one right way to grieve.

To me, arguing with someone's experience of loss is just silly. We'll all experience it a bit differently.

Raindropsonrose

Sun, Mar 20 2022, 12:11 am

Purple2 wrote:

Please speak for yourself, and don’t malign modern orthodoxy who I’ve only seen have been on the same page as the Torah world..

Please tell me that you didn’t just make a distinction between the modern orthodox community and the Torah world, as if one is somehow not part of the other?
I’m going to try and judge favorably and assume you didn’t mean that, but really, that was incredibly hurtful.

happytobemom

Sun, Mar 20 2022, 12:11 am

cutestbaby wrote:

Some of these posts reflect a massive lack of emunah.
It's okay to feel shock and loss but to say "oh no we're doomed now?" Seriously?
HKBH protected us long before R' Chaim and He will protect us after. To say/think otherwise is placing your faith in basar v'dam instead of in HKBH.

It is not placing your faith in basar vadam - there is a concept that the gedolim protect us. So yes, it is scary that he was taken from us. This doesn't mean we do not rely on HKBH chas veshalom.