SPINOFF Would u acknowledge the death of a parent in person?

amother

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 4:32 am

I'm the OP of thread about acknowledging a miscarriage in person if you heard about it in a text message.

Having read all the replies, I was wondering if the same thing applies to the death of someone's parent.

I have offered condolences to three people in person recently and they seemed to have been well received each time. On one occasion, there were other people offering condolences too.

Obviously there are differences in the situations but the reasons people gave for not acknowleding the miscarriage apply also here.

So would you acknowledge the death of someone's parent in person if you heard about it through text and had replied there?

amother

Amaranthus

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 4:37 am

I don't know.

In a more casual meeting I might just try to give space for it, "How have you been? How are you feeling?" and see if it looks like they would rather avoid discussing it.

If it was a private sit-down setting I probably would bring it up.

amother

Carnation

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 4:42 am

Do you mean, would you go to the shiva? Depends on my relationship with the person.

If I see someone I don't know well but I know that he or she has just lost a parent I will usually say something like,"I heard about your mother/ father. I'm so sorry." They can nod and just move on, or talk about the parent, and either is fine. I think it's strange not to acknowledge something so big.

ETA, lehavdil, if I see someone who has made a simcha, but we're not close enough to have been invited, I'll also wish mazal tov. I won't harp on details of the event, because the person might then feel awkward about not having invited me.

imaima

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 4:59 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think it's different because it doesn't imply anything happening in your uterus or your choices.
Death of a parent is very tragic and very straightforward.
Again, if I see them in public and feel like I want to give them chizuk but the time and place is bad, I say that I will give them a phone call or will try to meet up (and then initiate it).

essie14

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 5:07 am

To me, its 2 totally different scenarios. Completely unrelated.
When someone's parent dies, it's usually a public event. Theres a levaya and shiva. Norms dictate that you attend one or both of these events, depending on how close you are.
If you're not very close but you heard about the death, a text message is appropriate, and if you see the person, it's definitely appropriate to acknowledge their loss in your conversation.

A miscarriage is usually more personal and private.

amother

Blueberry

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 5:09 am

I think a miscarriage is something quite personal and many women are very private about it. I never told many people about mine, even my in-laws and siblings weren't told. I would be very upset if one of the people who did know brought it up to me without me first mentioning it.
OTOH unfortunately the death of a parent is something that will usually happen at some point and is pretty public. It's normal to do condolences the first time you see them in person, even if you sent a text.

amother

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 5:47 am

DrMom wrote:

Huh?

amother wrote:

Do you mean, would you go to the shiva? Depends on my relationship with the person.

No, I mean if you had not been able to go to the shiva because it was overseas or long distance and you saw the bereaved after the shiva.

For the death of a parent I think condolences are commonly given even by people who didn't nkow the bereaved well. For a miscarriage, that certainly would not be the case but for that I was talking about very close friends and family members who have previously brought up extremely personal topics with me.

So yes, it is certainly different, but it is also different if the bereaved is your brother rather than an aquaintance.

The reasons given in the other thread for not offering condolences in person were things that would also apply in this case, such as it might be upsetting to the other person to have the topic raised again.

amother

DarkOrange

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 5:59 am

A miscarriage and the death of a parent cannot be compared.

I understand your pain regarding your miss.
Most people treat a pregnancy loss personal and others try to respect that.
If you want others to acknowledge and talk about your loss again, maybe Be open about it and tell them.

amother

Jade

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 6:01 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What you’ve failed to mention in this thread is that your bro and sil are due the same time! I think you know that there’s a difference between mentioning the death of a parent and a misc. One is extremely private and the other public
you need to allow your bro his space in this time, and if you’d like to talk to him, do so. But personally don’t understand two threads for upset over your bro not coming to talk to you about your misc when he’s due the same time.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 6:24 am

Any situation where a person has a public mourning (levays, shiva) I would try to acknowledge if I do not make it to those events (not necessarily in the street. Mind you). Here my assumption UNLESS I HEARD OTHERWISE would be that the person is ok talking about it. of course would not talk about it if after shiva was told the person is not ready .

In these situations being notified about the death by text does not indicate anything about how the mourners wants to be communicated with. Texting is a practical way to get out time sensitive information and it is assumed the mourner does not havectge time to call.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 6:31 am

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

I would contrast this to being told by text about a miscarriage without an indication that the parents want to talk - either in the text or by the parents telling one person to spread the word.. I would take the text communication as that they feel t h ey must let me know but don't want to talk about it. Especially in the context of how many people DO NOT want to discuss.

amother

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 6:31 am

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Neither of the threads are about my relative or about me bring upset. I wrote to understand the etiquette as I was surprised nobody acknowledged me in person because that what I would have done with a very close friend or relative.

After hearing that the usual etiquette is something different than I was expecting because of the reasons given, I was then curious to what the norm would be in a comparable situation. (Comparable in that bringing up the topic could potentially be upsetting in both situations.)

imasinger

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 7:13 am

I'm glad you started this second thread, because it enabled me to gain some clarity in responding to either.

In my life, I've had 3 miscarriages, and lost a parent. The 3 misses were not in a row, however. That matters. Other circumstances also matter.

The circumstances meant that sometimes, I was more strongly impacted than others. But overall, from an emotional standpoint, the loss of a pregnancy is the loss of unrealized hopes and dreams, whereas the loss of a parent is the loss (unless there's dysfunction) of a big piece of one's past and present. I would expect different behaviors from those close to me.

I can't remember whether it's minhag or halacha, but when a person pays a shiva call, they're not supposed to start the conversation, but to wait until the mourner wants to talk. So, kol vachomer, in the situation you describe, it might be considered sensitivity to wait and see if the other person brings it up. Particularly after some time has passed.

Another factor -- I'm happy that I'm old enough to blame my poor memory on age, but it's been a lifetime issue. If I'm distracted, I can forget things, even important things, that happened in the lives of those I haven't seen in a while. If they bring it up, I can be supportive.

Overall, because bereavement hits people so differently, I don't think there's any one size fits all answer.

amother

Navyblue

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 7:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It is not comparable. I had a miscarriage after a long awaited pregnancy. I recently lost a parent. No, it is not comparable!!!

amother

Canary

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 7:50 am

Didn’t read the entire thread but I had this experience. Shortly after my father had passed away I was meeting with a rav in a different city (we were involved in helping someone there). The rav realized who I was (he knew my brother) and immediately said ‘hamakom…’ I was a bit surprised (and very impressed). When we left I asked my dh about it & he said that you say it the first time you see someone who lost a parent (for up to a year). Since then, that’s what I do when I see someone who’s lost a parent. People generally react well and I don’t worry I’m saying the ‘wrong’ thing.

amother

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 8:19 am

amother [ Navyblue ] wrote:

It is not comparable. I had a miscarriage after a long awaited pregnancy. I recently lost a parent. No, it is not comparable!!!

It looks as if you are deliberately misinterpreting my post.

I am not comparing the degree of loss.

I was told it could be upsetting to acknowledge a pregnancy loss. I was suggesting that by the same token it could also be upsetting to acknowledge the loss of someone's relative. Perhaps the person was moving forward and thinking about other things.

In any case, I'm going to maintain that you can't go wrong with a warm, sympathetic "How are you doing? I've been thinking about you."

Chayalle

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 9:13 am

After my mother A"H passed away, I met a classmate of mine in the supermarket. She came over to me and told me she had heard of my mother's passing. She also shared a memory of my mother with me. I really appreciated her coming over and acknowledging my loss. It was comforting.

I've been thru pg loss, and NOT THE SAME. I would not want to have a discussion of that in the supermarket. Way too painful. I'm there to get thru my shopping.

amother

Pistachio

Fri, Mar 25 2022, 9:15 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In any case, I'm going to maintain that you can't go wrong with a warm, sympathetic "How are you doing? I've been thinking about you."

I can't speak for the loss of a parent bH, but I would be annoyed if you said this to me after one of miscarriages. I don't want to be your pity case.