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Which is worse- verbal insults or hitting?
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Which is worse- hurtful language or hitting?
Getting physical is always worse  
 27%  [ 41 ]
Words can hurt even more  
 26%  [ 39 ]
They're equally bad  
 45%  [ 68 ]
Total Votes : 148



smss




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 9:20 pm
I agree, they're both bad.
Do you think one is necessarily worse?
Do you think only one can be called violence and the other cannot?
Do you think it's true that even in our frum world, when it comes to educating our children, we have a "red line" around hitting much more than we do for hurtful words, and is that correct?

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Genius




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 9:46 pm
I think physical and verbal abuse have the potential to be equally bad. But the term verbal abuse is vague. When I think of verbal abuse I think of something like a parent telling a minor child how they’re a good for nothing who will never amount to anything or that they don’t need them in their life. Not something like “fresh off the boat”.
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imanotmommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:06 pm
Words are worse when it's someone whose opinion you care about.
Hitting is worse when it's someone you don't have a connection with.
(this is my initial thought.)
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amother
Tulip


 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:11 pm
Getting physical is worse. Physical abuse has resulted in death.
People in a physically abusive relationship are often afraid to leave and stay in the dangerous situation.
Verbal abuse can be upsetting and crippling, but there is usually a way out. If not immediately then eventually.
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:18 pm
The only reason I don't like this question is because it serves to minimize the other. They can both be terrible.

But I think on the Maslow hierarchy of needs, physical safety is more primal than emotional safety. Therefore, I think the threat of or actual physical harm is worse than the threat of or actual emotional harm. But that doesn't mean that emotional harm isn't bad. It's like asking "which is worse, being cut off at the ankles or cut off at the waist"? They're both pretty bad.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:32 pm
Hitting is worse - it is extremely scary.

Also, almost everyone who hits is also screaming, insulting and cursing.

So it is both physical and verbal abuse.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:34 pm
My parents patched very rarely. I remember it happening a couple of times as a child but I have no recollection of the circumstances. Yet I remember every single comment about my weight and other other issues which tanked my self esteem and have caused me to have a problematic relationship with food to this day.
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amother
Pearl


 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:34 pm
It really depends who says or acts a certain way.

Roseanne made a joke about a black woman and was fired from her job.
Whoopie made an anti-semitic remark and was able to keep her job.
Kanye West was banned from performing because of some "offensive" things he posted on the internet (although many singers use the n word or talk about violence against women in their songs but are certainly not cancelled or banned from anything).
Chris Rock made a joke and so far hasnt lost his job (but he made it against a woman and we dont know what a woman is these days so maybe it doesnt count. plus, he is black and said it against a black woman so it certainly doesnt count).
Will Smith attacked someone and wasnt charged for assault. He also kept his job.
Nick Canon made an anti-semitic remark and was able to keep his job.
Alec Baldwin killed a woman and kept his job.
A white police officer made a mistake when she fired her gun instead of her taser and is now in prison for it.
Parents who stand up for the rights of their children are "domestic terrorists".
Blm rioting is "mostly peaceful" and they get away with it while J6 protesters are rotting in jail for trespassing.
So really it depends on who don it and what was done or said to determine if the person will be cancelled or prosecuted (but if you are Jewish then you will certainly get cancelled even if you pretend to be white). Its literally like walking on eggshells as we dont know who we will "trigger" with our comments and get cancelled as a result of them being "triggered".
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 10:35 pm
In USA we have laws against Hitting (Physical abuse) but Freedom of Speech is protected.

Some groups are saying "words are violence" because they are trying to abolish Freedom of Speech.

They are also trying to justify people doing actual violence (rioting, looting, burning down buildings)
as a form of "speech" I.e. "peaceful protest".

Even though speech IS hurtful, it is NOT violence!
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 28 2022, 11:58 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
My parents patched very rarely. I remember it happening a couple of times as a child but I have no recollection of the circumstances. Yet I remember every single comment about my weight and other other issues which tanked my self esteem and have caused me to have a problematic relationship with food to this day.


I think in the moment getting hit is worse because of the intense fear.

But in the long run, people get over the physical (if not severe) but the words
are replayed over and over and over....
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:33 am
amother [ Tulip ] wrote:
Getting physical is worse. Physical abuse has resulted in death.
People in a physically abusive relationship are often afraid to leave and stay in the dangerous situation.
Verbal abuse can be upsetting and crippling, but there is usually a way out. If not immediately then eventually.


So my initial reaction to this is that yeah- they may be able to leave the situation (although with children whose parents are verbally abusive that may not happen for a very long time Sad) but that doesn't mean the abuse has left them. The effects of verbal abuse can linger for a lifetime. The same is of course true of physical abuse.
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:33 am
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
My parents patched very rarely. I remember it happening a couple of times as a child but I have no recollection of the circumstances. Yet I remember every single comment about my weight and other other issues which tanked my self esteem and have caused me to have a problematic relationship with food to this day.


That makes so much sense.
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chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:34 am
Words aren't violence. That doesn't mean they can't be bad. But they aren't violence.
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amother
Tulip


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:37 am
smss wrote:
So my initial reaction to this is that yeah- they may be able to leave the situation (although with children whose parents are verbally abusive that may not happen for a very long time Sad) but that doesn't mean the abuse has left them. The effects of verbal abuse can linger for a lifetime. The same is of course true of physical abuse.


But as long as they aren't dead they can eventually try to heal.
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:40 am
WhatFor wrote:
The only reason I don't like this question is because it serves to minimize the other. They can both be terrible.

But I think on the Maslow hierarchy of needs, physical safety is more primal than emotional safety. Therefore, I think the threat of or actual physical harm is worse than the threat of or actual emotional harm. But that doesn't mean that emotional harm isn't bad. It's like asking "which is worse, being cut off at the ankles or cut off at the waist"? They're both pretty bad.


I really really don't want to minimize either one.
Everyone is calling out Will Smith for the slap, right? As they should. Shouldn't we also call out Chris Rock for the insensitive and hurtful joke? I almost feel like that is getting lost in all the hullabaloo about the slap.
I remember someone posting here a while ago about her son finally hitting another boy in camp who had verbally bullied him numerous times. And her son got punished for hitting, while the bully had never gotten punished for the verbal remarks. Her son said something to her along the lines of "why is it not ok for me to hit him but it's ok for him to hurt my heart?" So I wonder if our school systems, camps etc also do this... that we see hitting as somehow crossing a line that verbal assault doesn't cross. And if that's an accurate assessment.
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chanatron1000




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:40 am
The words used not what makes verbal abuse abuse. It is the way the words are used to harm and intimidate and chosen specifically to harm the victim. A person can say bad things without being abusive or be verbally abusive without saying anything that's universally bad.
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 12:45 am
chanatron1000 wrote:
The words used not what makes verbal abuse abuse. It is the way the words are used to harm and intimidate and chosen specifically to harm the victim. A person can say bad things without being abusive or be verbally abusive without saying anything that's universally bad.


Right - so in the case of Chris Rock perhaps he truly didn't know about the alopecia and that it was a sensitive topic? It still seems to me that making fun of someone's hair is so personal, it would never be appropriate to make as a public joke without knowing for sure the other person wouldn't mind. Like maybe there wasn't intent to hurt it was just a bit ignorant and insensitive?

He clearly did hurt her feelings though and like... has he even apologized for that?
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amother
Daisy


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 7:37 am
Words are worse because it leaves the victim doubting if the abuse even existed.

I am SO grateful for the times when my abusive mother slapped me on the face when I was 20 and pulled my pinky nail off. Those are my proofs to everyone and to myself that she really is abusive and it's not all in my head.

BTW my dad spanked me but he's a great dad and in no way abusive.

I remember so many times my mother restrained me so hard I couldn't breathe, digging her long nails into my arms, and then when I bit her hand to force her to release the pressure she gave me mussar about kibud eim and how I don't care about aseres hadibros and only pretend to be frum.

You're going to be "omg that's awful" about the physical abuse but it doesn't affect my daily life and it hasn't for over a decade. But if I told you the verbal abuse you would tell me she didn't mean it, I misunderstood it, I misjudged her, she was upset, it came out wrong, she was probably responding to something I did, if I was nicer to her she'd be nicer to me, if I want her to speak nicely to me then I should do this and that, she didn't do anything wrong and she was right to say those things because I embarrassed her, I deserved to be spoken to like that because I was chutzpadik when I insisted I was telling the truth and I was innocent.

To this day after years of therapy I still often think it's in my head and I need reminders from others who have dealt with her (DH, MIL, sometimes a sibling) that it is NOT all in my head. I need reminders like how she treated my child and how she treats people doing her favors when it's not 1000% perfect exactly the way she wanted the favor, to remind me that it's not in my head.

Verbal abuse is much worse. Much worse.

It's too bad my mother didn't leave bruises. Maybe CPS would've gotten involved, maybe a teacher would've reached out to me, maybe my extended family would have believed me instead of always siding with my mother.

Oh and the physical abuse doesn't leave tapes in your head that you repeat to your children when things get too overwhelming and you are too short on sleep and support. Physical abuse you can break the cycle by keeping your hands to yourself and finding a stress ball or something to squeeze or going for a power walk. Verbal abuse? Try changing the tapes in your head about how you see yourself and how you speak to your children, on 2 hours of sleep a night.

VERBAL ABUSE IS ABUSE AND IT IS WORSE.

Some may disagree with me. Some may not like my answer. That's okay.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 7:49 am
smss wrote:
Right - so in the case of Chris Rock perhaps he truly didn't know about the alopecia and that it was a sensitive topic? It still seems to me that making fun of someone's hair is so personal, it would never be appropriate to make as a public joke without knowing for sure the other person wouldn't mind. Like maybe there wasn't intent to hurt it was just a bit ignorant and insensitive?

He clearly did hurt her feelings though and like... has he even apologized for that?

Wait -- Are you really saying that even if there is no medical issue, comedians should not make fun of anybody's hair without checking with them first?

Sorry, that is completely ridiculous.

This guy is a professional comedian. He's performing at the Oscars, where it is customary to poke fun at the other actors. He's not going to stand up there and tell kindergarten-style knock-knock jokes.
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amother
Stoneblue


 

Post Tue, Mar 29 2022, 9:39 am
I think emotional abuse affects a person much more fundamentally, especially when you are talking about children. I grew up always being yelled at for getting things wrong, especially when I was trying to help. We were constantly being told we were useless and we would walk on eggshells around the house trying to avoid attention.
I'm not sure you can ever truly get over that and believe you are good enough. I think in some ways physical abuse is less embedded into the psyche and a person can more easily heal.
BUT, it's rare that a person is physically abused without there being emotional elements, so it does go together.
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