Lakewood Voice-no internet, yes $800 coat

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 8:58 am

It reminded me of the letter someone recently wrote into Mishpacha, saying that she has to get current season clothes for her 15 year old even though she officially lives a Kollel lifestyle. Because her 15 year old didn't make that choice and shouldn't be "deprived".

Um, there are lots of non-Kollel families who don't afford all of this season's styles, and shop sales. And there are some who even have a value of teaching kids to live within what they can afford, that has nothing to do with Kollel. I'm not sure why every young teen has to be entitled to the most expensive designer coats, watches, briefcases, etc....regardless of her parent's income bracket.

B"H I have well-adjusted, put-together daughters and none of them own coats in that price range (and they still look nice). What kind of values are we raising our daughters with if we give in to that? Is no-internet the be-all and end-all, or is there anything else we want to teach them?

amother

Kiwi

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 9:10 am

Chayalle wrote:

I remember thinking that letter was silly. There are plenty of non kollel families that don't buy trendy expensive clothes for their teens, whether bec they can't afford it or they prioritize something else. Those kids didn't choose to get born into family of lesser means, or to parents with different priorities.

Anyway, I thought the original Double Take was silly and unrealistic for several reasons:
1. The shidduch age daughter was hardly an old maid at the age of 21.
2. If stylish clothing could solve all shidduchim problems there would be no older singles.
3. The parents were running after guys/families that clearly lived a different lifestyle and had different values so this specific shidduch was unlikely to work out unless the daughter pretended to be someone she's not.
4. If she's 21 years old, I assume the daughter has a job. Why doesn't she use some of her earnings to supplement her wardrobe? Or add on to what her parents would buy, then she can afford level of clothing she wants? At that age, I (and my friends) who came from families of lesser means, were buying our own clothes. Even if we were in college, we had part time jobs or at least babysat.
5. If she has no money, and her parents can barely afford to buy her a dating outfit or two, whar do they expect her and her husband to live off of when they marry?
I could go on.... Cool

amother

Cinnamon

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 9:26 am

amother [ Brickred ] wrote:

I agree, OP.

Besides, it is extremely atypical to be spending $800 on a coat! Not realistic.

Your kidding right?
A new Sam coat that so many hs girls wear, can be over 400$ when not on sale.
Moose knuckle doesn’t run under 500 at the beginning of the season.
Same with Canada goose
These are all brands you can see on a lot of hs girls.
The monclers on HS kids are usually from Ali because they run over 1,000 minimum I know some hs kids from wealthy families who have real ones, but they can afford it.
I’m talking regular price, decent style.

lfab

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 9:32 am

So what bothered me most wasn't the proce of the coat or that the parents were considering spending money they didn't have on it. Though yes that's a ridiculous amount to spend on a coat, IMHO, as parents we all have times we need to make those kinds of choices (though for each person it may be at a different price point or for different things). What really bothered me was how it seemed to over simplify the concept of emunah and sticking to one's principles. In most cases where a person has to make a choice to stick to their principles they don't see a clear direct reward for that. In fact, often it's the opposite. Sticking to their principles usually results in then seeing more difficulty (think all the people who first came to America and had to find a new job each week because the refused to work on shabbos). It's a little to trite for me that oh look they stuck with their beliefs and magically it all just worked out so nicely! What would have happened of they hadn't found a friend selling that coat for only $200. How many times would they have held their resolve not to use the internet no matter what if they didn't see a clear direct "reward".

amother

DarkCyan

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 9:51 am

So many things wrong with this whole issue...
Why dont our kids understand the value of a dollar? That money is finite?
Why so much pressure for brand names, specific styles etc? Materialism does not fit with a Torah lifestyle and Torah community.
Why the crazy peer pressure? I remember back when I was in school there was a small group of "robots" who wore the same styles, did their hair the same way, same backpacks and shoes.... but the rest of the school did their own thing (me included).
Why cant parents say no to their kids?
Why are they normalizing wearing 800 coats. Or buying knockoffs/used just to fit in? Like they absolutely need it to fit in? If that is the state of high school I am scared. It's not like these coats are worth the 800. And no they are not better or warmer than many other brands. It's all for the label.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 9:56 am

Chayalle wrote:

I don't get that concept at all. As parents, our decisions affect our children. Whether it's the lifestyle you're living, the schools that you send them to, the town that you live in, the parnossoh that you choose, etc. When a parent makes the decision to choose the kollel lifestyle, it comes with the fact that your children will be living that lifestyle as well.

The kollel families generally speak to the benefits of the kollel lifestyle as it relates to our children - how the children grow up in a Torah and learning environment, etc. Well, like everything else in life, there are two sides to every choices, and the other side is that the children may have to do with less materialism.

If you're grabbing onto the benefits of kollel for your children, you just can't turn around and then say that the hardships of kollel is not fair to your children. It's a package deal, and you can't cherry pick the pros and leave the cons. When parents make the decisions to live the kollel lifestyle, it comes with the package deal, pros and cons, for the entire family. No one should be expected to make up for the cons. If the downside of your decision is not working for your familiar, then you need to rethink your decision. Society is not responsible to make up for the shortfall.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 10:07 am

amother [ Whitewash ] wrote:

I guess overall I just felt like, why is it so wonderful that they have a no-internet policy in their home, and the fact that they have a yes-to-luxuries policy is perfectly okay and even lauded? See, it works out, they got the $800 coat for $200. And it's still an overpriced coat, and a value that is IMVHO no better than yes-internet.

Exactly. I find such stories very distasteful. It's speaks to a childish approach as in 'hey, my value is better than yours'. Having values where clothing define the person, status and standing in your community is not a good value in the least bit.

Personally, I don't see the value in 'no internet'. I do see the value in people who walk the fine line of internet use, such as in ensuring that it's used for the good, and limiting the bad to the extent possible. That's a bigger challenge and a great value. You get to do mitzvohs, chessed and learning in ways that wasn't previous possible, and yet have the character and strength to avoid wasting time and negative interactions.

Imo, when you have the no internet value, you're throwing out the good along with the bad.

GLUE

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 10:23 am

amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:

I guess I live in a different world then you.

Someone gave my DD a really nice coat this winter she refused to wear it because it had a CK on it, and why should she advertise for someone if they are not giving her money for this.( Such nachaus when your kids start saying your words back to you, they were actually listening to your ranting)

B"H my kids are so not into brand names, if they were I would have to deal with it. B"H this is not my nesion of life.

Chayalle

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 10:39 am

amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:

You do know that there are many families and high school girls that don't waste that kind of money o a coat, right? Not even a quarter of it. Sure there are lots of girls wearing it, but it sure isn't everyone. Spending $400 on a coat isn't regular price.

amother

Geranium

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 10:46 am

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

I got my kids nice, classic super warm coats at lands end for $35 each. I’ve also done really well at Abercrombie. Even an adult does not need to spend $200 on a coat (but I understand it more for an adult who isn’t growing and changing sizes)

Where are you finding Lands End coats for $35!??!!
I got my son a coat for next season for $70 from Lands End and that was 60% off. Maybe because he's a teenager it's more money?

amother

Tuberose

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 10:53 am

amother [ Geranium ] wrote:

Where are you finding Lands End coats for $35!??!!
I got my son a coat for next season for $70 from Lands End and that was 60% off. Maybe because he's a teenager it's more money?

You have to get at exact right time.
Last year got down coats for $40 at lands end for teen boys and $20-35 from gap for toddlers and tween girls. Also got hollister coat $35 this year mid season for teen boy. It’s possible. ($70 is still good - they are great warm coats). BH my kids are happy. I think they thing it’s crazy to spend a lot.
My teen son was recently asking me why someone would be happy spending so much on a sweatshirt.

amother

Zinnia

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 11:02 am

I find the simplicity of the message to be offensive - only children believe in such one to one occurrences - do this and this will happen.

Aside from that I find the whole value system to be strange. Having internet is neutral and can be used in many positive ways just as any form of technology can be useful or not. Telephones and cars and computers as well as many other modern devices are wonderful or awful depending on how used.

I find it very strange that an expensive coat is viewed as something that is a positive goal and will be achieved.

I am not even getting into the red herring discussion of whether an $800 coat is *expensive" since the point of this "fable" was that someone who is truly *righteous* will be rewarded and that not having the internet somehow makes a person more righteous than someone who has the internet and does not use it to search for p*orn or other stuff.

Also how does information on what is a coveted coat spread through a community anyway. If you are protecting your children (theoretically) from evil influences how did this kind of lusting after expensive stuff become possible - magazines? I am being facetious here - just pointing out how ridiculous it is to block one form of communication arbitrarily

amother

Snowdrop

Fri, Apr 01 2022, 11:15 am

GLUE wrote:

And Calvin Klein isn't even considered high end ...