My community is dying... I am so torn.

amother

Dahlia

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 12:15 pm

amother [ Heather ] wrote:

It's a shame that many smaller out of town communities are struggling, and it mostly seems to be financially related. Probably because they're all set within the largest cities in the country, and generally in the more expensive areas.

Seattle, LA, Denver, Portland, Phoenix, Miami, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, etc.....

These are all big cities.

There needs to be more attention paid to growing communities in smaller American towns that are cheaper to live in. In today's world, more people work remotely, so finding local jobs is less of a concern than it used to be. I'm thinking West Virginia, the Carolinas, Wyoming, Tennessee...

Honestly, outside of South Bend, Indiana, and several east coast towns, I can't think of another small Jewish community that is set in a small, inexpensive American town.

If you can think of one, please let me know.

Louisville is definitely not a super expensive area, yet the religious community is tiny.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 1:30 pm

amother [ Heather ] wrote:

Allentown
Overland Park
Wilkes Barre
Stamford
West Hartford
Waterbury
Louisville
Milwaukee
Albany
Fallsburg

amother

Natural

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 2:03 pm

amother [ Heather ] wrote:

Cleveland may have a decent size city but it is not an expensive place to live imo.

amother

Geranium

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 2:46 pm

We were living in a dying community. We chose to leave and move to a flourishing community pretty close by.
Honestly, I didn't realize how badly the dying community affected us until we moved away. My husband switched careers, the kids have a tremendous amount of friends and social opportunities, their new schools are way bigger but so good for them. We didn't realize how morose Shabbos was and how isolated we were. It was hard to leave but the best decision we ever made.

amother

Cyan

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 3:23 pm

I did this as a child. Our community shrank and shrank until we had no school at all. Minyan became impossible- it was often we didnt get 10 on Shabbos- all you needed was someone to have a headcold, need to go out of town for a simcha or work, oversleep...

We moved to a much much larger community. Not another tiny one. It was harder for me than my siblings as I was older... so I would recommend doing it earlier rather than later! I am so glad my parents made the move but the adjustment was really really hard for me. Be there for your kids. Maybe send them to a local camp there before school starts so they can meet kids.

amother

Firebrick

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 5:39 pm

amother [ Heather ] wrote:

Detroit is actually NOT a small, struggling community...! Surprised

There are thousands of frum families here and more move in each year. And I don't think Miami would be considered a small, struggling community either these days.

That point about being near a big metropolitan city doesn't seem to be very consistent or true. You might say that distance from relatives and other nearby frum hubs means might mean less support for a community because a city like Detroit, for example, is close to Toronto, Chicago and Cleveland. (Seattle doesn't have that same kind of leverage which comes with the geographic advantage.) However, there are smaller communities like Cincinnati that also have the proximity advantage, but don't seem to be growing in the same way.

Is growth dependent on cost of living? Infrastructure? Ratzon Hashem? All of the above?

😊

amother

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 6:43 pm

amother [ Butterscotch ] wrote:

I'll come to your community! We are looking to get out of the in town

I doubt you would want to come... If this continues in a few years there won't be a school and minyan.. As it is the school is too small for a healthy social life for my children. It's not worth moving to a community that is going downhill and is shrinking so fast. When it's a small community to begin with each family counts!

amother

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 6:56 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Allentown
Overland Park
Wilkes Barre
Stamford
West Hartford
Waterbury
Louisville
Milwaukee
Albany
Fallsburg

Some of these towns are too small for us. We need an orthodox community that has enough families that the elementary school can separate boys and girls and have a class for each grade of at least 10 kids (meaning 10 boys and 10 girls). One of my kids has only 1 other in their grade, and it's stifling their ability to grow socially. Moving is tough, I don't want to move to a small OOT community to have to do it again in a few years if the next community shrinks down too.

Do these communities have affordable housing? I saw posters for Texas where housing is waaaaay out of our reach.

Childcare is also very important for us, we wouldn't move if there isn't a daycare or babysitting run by frum people. We both work full time. Cannot imagine moving to a place without daycare or babysitting that would allow us to work. Cleveland is out for that reason (at least from what I've seen others post on this site). Cannot afford to live without working full time because of health insurance benefits...

We've thought about Aliyah but cannot, both our jobs cannot be done outside of the US.

Open to and thankful for your suggestions.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 7:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Waterbury?

amother

Lavender

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 7:26 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Milwaukee meets all of these criteria. Day school is big enough (and tuition is free!), affordable housing, Chabad runs a full time daycare as well as people from their homes. The community is growing, we have a number of families planning to move in over the next six months.

But some other suggestions given already might also.

amother

Caramel

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 7:39 pm

amother [ Aster ] wrote:

Jews have traditionally been in large cities for parnassah.
Look at the conversation about new community in Florida.
The biggest issue is it’s not near anything. Good jobs, hospitals, airports.

LOL. Traditionally, Jews lived in small towns and villages. The Holocaust "took care" of that but until then the majority of Jews did not live in cities.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 7:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Definitely Waterbury like someone suggested above. There's literally too many kids in elementary. If you want bigger, Baltimore is still pretty affordable. Not sure how many families are in Overland Park now, but it has small and steady growth and there might be frum daycare. Various Philly suburbs might work. Also Detroit and Milwaukee. And Rochester, NY.

amother

Gold

Thu, Apr 07 2022, 8:49 pm

If you move somewhere bigger, do lots of research first. I live in a pretty large OOT community that’s affordable, and our schools are overwhelmed right now because so many people moved here in the past few years. They’re struggling to provide the same level of chinuch they used to, and frankly it’s pretty chaotic at the moment. There’s a lot to be said for a small oot school with good middos and plenty of individual attention.