In laws showed up during dinner

amother

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 2:39 am

We live about an hour drive from my in-laws. We don’t have a close relationship at all but they have no issue popping into people for surprise visits. In my family we only go to people if we are invited. Especially for a meal. This morning fil texted dh that they’re coming to us to visit. They don’t have any kids home and were just looking for a way to spend the day. We knew they usually leave late and didn’t we want to stay home and wait so he told him we’re going to a certain outdoor place and he should come meet us there and we’ll go to our house afterwards. In the end they decided to go shopping in our area while we finished our outing with our kids. When we got home the kids were famished so I warmed up dinner. In-laws showed up as we started eating. I prepared for them cut up fruits, nuts etc. Fil went to the sink to wash saying, since it’s a meal I’m gonna wash, referring to dinner. We didn’t invite them nor did they say they’re coming for dinner. We’re a small family and I prepared suppers in the freezer before yt. So two extra adults was a big deal. Dh started serving them, we stretched it thin (I stayed hungry, meat was too tight) and they ate. They didn’t comment or thank us or anything. Was serving them a meal a given? I’m so confused.

imaima

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 2:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In my view yes.
Can’t imagine serving fruit to parents while others have a proper meal.
But that is probably cultural.
In my culture parents who see how much food is available would forego their portions and just socialize.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 2:48 am

imaima wrote:

This.

The part about popping in and making last-minute plans may be cultural, but showing up uninvited to a family meal and watching your hosts being deprived of their own dinner while you chow down is lacking derech eretz.

I am assuming in the above reply that money in your household is tight.

amother

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 2:54 am

DrMom wrote:

Money is tight but if I’d know they’re coming I would definitely prepare more than enough food for everyone. It’s very not my culture to pop in. My parents would never do that and neither would any of my friends’ or siblings in laws. They just lack tact IMHO.
We also have a minhag not to “mish” and that included even with family. The only people we eat at is parents or in-laws. We use products my in-laws don’t so I assumed they wouldn’t even want to eat hence the fruits and nuts.

WhatFor

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 3:01 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Popping in usually means without prior warning. If they called in advance it's not quite "popping in" although it might be short notice for what you need.

General etiquette is that if someone is coming around dinner time, be prepared to give them dinner. Certainly if you're eating dinner the proper thing to do is offer, which you ultimately did.

Here it seems they were unclear about when they were coming but by the time you were going home for dinner and planning to meet them, you knew they'd be there during dinner. Even if you're unsure if they'll eat your food on pesach you can always offer. I'm sorry for your frustrations- it's hard when things are tight.

Btw, I'm answering this way because you're the one asking. If someone posted asking if it's okay to ask someone to visit or meet up during the day and then not show up until dinner time, I might have a different answer. But it seems like you were both really playing by ear during the day and it was all very informal.

amother

Alyssum

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 3:06 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What does this mean?

amother

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 3:11 am

WhatFor wrote:

They told us they’ll come at around 4 and since they’re not punctual we told them we might be out and play it by ear. 4 o’clock is not dinner time especially for them, they usually eat very late.

amother

NeonGreen

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 4:11 am

Well after reading all these threads about how people use their tzedekah money to literally support their parents I think they're giving them a meal is definitely the right thing to do. That sounds like they did call you to say that they were coming. I have been making very easy dinners. My parents are visiting and I really happy with everything I serve. If it was me I probably would have made extra matza pizza. The mitzvah of kivud av veem is not a simple one in the laws are quite complicated. My parents are here and don't want to drive and are hesitant to take taxes and I was told that I really need to take them and pick them up and take them wherever they need and want to go. I got a big bracha from my Rav and I've had the easiest pesach ever. It's like God is giving me this extra help. Now I know that I don't know if it's exactly from that but things that weren't falling the place are really falling into place and I really feel like there's a good chance it's because of my extra kibud horim

imaima

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 4:19 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you had more dinners in the freezer, could you defrost more? For yourself or for them?

Reality

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 4:45 am

If your FIL texted your husband then he didn't pop in. Popping in means no advanced warning. It may not have been as much notice as you like but it was a planned visit.

You made a mistake. You should have assumed they'd eat at your house. You should have prepared food that they eat on Pesach. No matter how annoying their visit was, they did travel to see your children.

I wouldn't dwell on it. Now you know to have a meal prepared when family travels from a distance. We all learn from our mistakes.

amother

Aqua

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:05 am

Reality wrote:

Agree, if family let me know they'd be coming late afternoon, I'd assume they would probably still be there at dinner hour and would prepare accordingly. Unless they made it clear they'd be literally running in for 10 minutes, just to say hi. But when it's parents/grandparents it's likely to be a longer visit anyway.
If you weren't prepared, you did the best you could. Certainly it was better than having them eat fruit and watching everyone else eat (which would have been very uncomfortable for you, anyway).

amother

Oxfordblue

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:11 am

This is more about culture differences than anything else. I don't think you did anything wrong, you operated on reasonable assumptions based on the way you saw things growing up.

For the future, though, you have learned a number of things about how your in-laws work, and should prepare accordingly in the future:

- Texting the day of is considered polite advance notification for them
- They eat in others' homes on Pesach
- If they are there in the late afternoon they assume they will be eating dinner with you

Obviously you could not know their cultural understanding beforehand, I'd make it a learning experience and not be resentful of them or embarrassed of yourself.

amother

Oxfordblue

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:32 am

ilovehashem2 wrote:

I would have been blunt and said sorry I didn't make enough food for you but your welcome to sit around and chill and I'd appreciate some advance warning if you plan on coming for a meal...same thing happened to me with in laws and I said no. Some might call it impolite but you have to make yourself clear that gate crashing isn't acceptable

I think it's easier for OP to learn to understand their cultural cues than for them (who are much older and set in their ways) to adjust to hers. This is a matter of expectations, not boundary issues. They DID text in advance that they planned on joining them for the day, but in their mind it meant more than it did for OP.

amother

NeonGreen

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:40 am

ilovehashem2 wrote:

Oh my gosh if my kids ever treated me like that after I took care of them for years and years and years I would be beyond upset. They didn't get crash they called ahead of time to say they were coming and it's pesach so it's not like they could just eat something from just anywhere. Kivud avvem is a real mitzvah I'm fhe Torah. And the laws are quite complicated. We're not talking about abusive parents here. We're talking about parents that maybe there's a little bit of a strain. I'm sorry but even if it wasn't my parents who walked in and it was a friend I would provide them with food!

imasinger

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:44 am

How comfortable are you making a request?
Perhaps in the future, you could say, "so you'll join us around 4? Great! I already have prepared just enough dinner for us, so we'd love for you to join us for the meal, but would need you to bring something so we'd have enough."

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 5:52 am

I don’t know. You sound rigid. It wasn’t unannounced- they said they would come. They told you they were coming at 4, you know they are late people.. hence it should have been obvious they were going to come to eat. Whenever we have people over especially on Chol Hamoed we have food ready.

amother

Cognac

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 6:01 am

They texted you in advance and said around 4....and you know they aren't prompt...why would you think that wouldn't be dinner time? I think its kind of rude to just offer fruit and nuts.did you really havw no extra food in the house to add to stretch things...chop some veggies, deli, leftovers etc...Imagine a post where someone said they went to their in laws who sat around eating dinner and all they gave them was fruit and nuts.

essie14

Thu, Apr 21 2022, 6:04 am

If someone told me they were coming from far away to visit I'd always have food prepared.
4:00 is close enough to dinner time that I believe it would be reasonable to assume they would stay, plus it's pesach and they can't stop for food on the way home.
If I truly didn't have enough I'd ask them to bring some thing, maybe they had some leftovers they could contribute?