So lost and don't know where to go from here

amother

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:20 am

Sorry for the long ramble. So lost and don't know what to do or where to go from here. Background my daughter was evaluated many times by the board of ed and by a few neuropsychs. End result they all said she's brilliant but. The but varies from she seemed to have so much energy maybe adhd, or she seemed socially different ( which was really acting years above her age ) so maybe asd. No one had real answers because even though they said maybe she's one of those things she doesn't really fit the profile well and they aren't sure what type of help she should receive. One suggested tutoring. So she got pulled out of class for a bunch of subjects but the tutors all quit and said why are we tutoring this kid she knows the information really well. The issue is her teachers are fed up. She refuses to fill out busy work, she finds school boring and repetitive and will act out. Acting out as in calling out, making jokes to make friends laugh, make noises, cut up her sheets etc.. In english she is reading on an 8th grade level her teacher said she shouldn't even bother with the work because it's ridiculous for her to read basic passages. She reads them out of boredom but she's done the assignment in 5 minutes and then pulls out a book for the rest of the hour. She doesn't like hebrew and would rather not apply herself. Her teacher is not a chilled person and basically gave up on her. The school insisted on a shadow who did nothing but baby and stifle her. The shadow just quit too because she's so bored the job is a waste of time and she can't figure out why she's in the classroom. She also has a really high vocabulary and can articulate her feelings really well people always say they feel like they are talking to an adult. In my opinion I think she's bored out of her box and doesn't have patience to sit through school. The school thinks she needs aba, and it will mold her to sit through and do her work and not act out when she's bored. But I don't think that's dealing with the real issue of why she is having trouble sitting through class. Where do I go from her? What am I supposed to do with her? Anyone dealt with a similar situation?

amother

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:26 am

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

Are there any alternative school options for her? So much here seems to be tied up in the way the school is dealing with things that it's hard to know how much of it is from her and how much of it is from the system.

You didn't share how old she is, but I'd also consider homeschooling for a while.

Oh whoops meant to write she's in second grade. I don't think any other school would be different. I do like the school for all the other reasons. The staff in general are nice and I like the type of kids, socially she's doing great and has many friends.

amother

Ballota

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:30 am

Sounds a lot like I was as a kid. Ultimately I was diagnosed with ASD but having a diagnosis doesn't solve the problems. ABA isn't a solution.

There's nothing wrong with her behaviors per say but you still need to figure out how she can function in a normal school setting either that or homeschool.

When I was in school there was a lot of teachers letting me do my own thing and me having distractions so I wouldn't disturb the class. I would doodle, write stories, do Sudoku, I had fidget toys which are pretty popular now.

The teachers let me Daydream or read a book under the table.

I really did hate school though. My parents at some point looked into alternative options, like non Jewish schools that cater to kids that work different. But I was used to being mainstreamed at that point and I didn't want to go to such a school. I thought all the kids there were weirdos and I wanted to be in a Jewish school. it was difficult but we made it work

amother

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:31 am

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

She does most of that but they hate her daydreaming with a passion. They insist that it's a basic to follow along and do what the class is doing. They also think that if she can pull out random stuff the whole class will want to and then it will be disruptive.

Rubies

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:35 am

She needs academic stimulation. Teachers that are cooperative will find a way for her to be challenged in her level.
Send her for errands or to pair her up with weaker students and have her guide them.

Hire a private tutor to take her out every day and challenge her.

I'm all for evaluations but this is simply torturing a kid.
Would you expect an adult to be able to sit through 8 hours of academic boredom quietly every day? Never mind a child, adults can't do it either.

amother

Ballota

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:35 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think my mother had to do a lot of educating the school about what my needs were and this was many years ago when like having different needs was unheard of.

Honestly I had really understanding teachers and I'm not sure what I would do in your position. Because it sounds like even if you she got a diagnosis the school would want her to have ABA or therapy to change her to fit in in to make their lives easier.

Unfortunately the goal today is not what's best for the student but rather what's easiest for the teacher.

amother

Acacia

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:37 am

To summarize, the school is very nice but they are not ready to work with her as she is. They insist that she fit a certain mold of student.

OP, you may like the school but the school doesn't like your daughter. They might like her as a person but they do not like her as a student because she is not ready to pretend she is interested when she's not. And she is in SECOND grade. They want you to medicate or therapize her to behave exactly like the other second graders.

I can't see how this school is working for her, however nice they are.

amother

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:42 am

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

Are there BY type schools that are different? From what I heard I don't think there are any schools here that deal with this type of kid in a different way. I don't think I can homeschool myself, so let's say I sign her up for online classes and hire some tutors what do I do with her socially? It just seems so daunting. I thought about pulling her out of school but I think I will ultimately end up failing her.

amother

Tomato

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:45 am

I don't have advice though I have seen this struggle. Your daughter is a special girl with incredible qualities. I don't know if you will ever find the perfect solution but I would like to add how important it is to keep her emotionally healthy. Your daughter will be made to feel bad many times unfortunately simply because she isn't conforming to the expected norm. As she grows up on her level you can keep reminding her how special she is and the amazing gift hashem gave her. Remind her that school is only 12 years a small amount in the scheme of things and once she is done she will be able to use her incredible kochos to do things that most people could not. Let her develop her talents and interests in any way she can so she feels successful and accomplished. Being in school and getting good grades doesn't do that for her, because it's so easy. Remind her that the teachers aren't upset with her, they are simply trying to run a classroom and need it to be quiet to do so. I wish you only nachas!

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 7:54 am

My dd is very similar. She was (eventually) diagnosed as gifted with adhd. For many years we were told that it couldn’t be adhd because she didn’t have certain symptoms. Then we took her to someone who specializes in bright kids with behavior issues (Dr mandelman) and he said that adhd manifests differently in gifted children and she 100% had adhd. We started her on meds and it made a huge difference.
Because of the delay in diagnosis (and some other factors outside our control) our daughter is no longer in a frum school, but we did find a place that has been amazing for her, b”h and we hope to transition her into a frum high school in a year or two)

mha3484

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:01 am

I have a similar situation except its a boy. I think the boys yeshivos do a better job with kids like this. They expect less blind obedience and let the boys with shpilkes have a little more freedom. I am sorry OP I empathize with you. Its very hard to have a kid like this. Its very lonely. When you tell someone your kid is bored to tears either they cant relate or their kid struggles to learn and they tell you to stop kvetching and be grateful. Neither is helpful.

My son is in 5th grade and is brilliant. The menahel of his yeshiva said he is probably smarter then half the rebbeim. We have had great years and less then great years. It depends a lot on the teacher/rebbe. Some can really challenge him and some dont and hes bored to tears. I do a lot to encourage him to explore his interests and he has a chavrusa at night that learns a different mascheta then he learns in school. We also talk a lot about how sometimes we will be bored and its a real bracha to get the material so fast but we need to understand not everyone does. Life will not always cater to his specific needs. Its a super hard balance and I probably don't always get it right. The key is to get the school on board with you.

amother

Cognac

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:05 am

She sounds twice exceptional but it's frustrating that you can't tell if it's ADHD or ASD. I have adhd but didn't know as a kid. I figured out how to read before first grade so when the rest of the class learned to read I got to go to the back of the room with a book and read to myself. I loved it and felt like it was a privilege. These teachers sound like they're stifling your poor kid. Who wants to do boring busy work all day? They should allow her to do more challenging work on her level.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:37 am

Wow kah! She is really advanced in so many areas and she is only in 2nd grade!

I would think that you should divide this issue into 2 parts.

1. Does she have a diagnoses or not, are there any outside help she could get like social skills that would help her....

2. Make a list of issues that come up for her in the classroom that bother the teacher or that keeps her back from succeeding. For example: gets bored when she is done with her work, misbehaves when the lesson is boring....
Choose one thing from your list that you can come up with a very doable and practical thing to help her. Choose the one that comes up often, so fixing it will make a big impact. Also one that is doable to help. If you choose the one were she gets bored you can buy her a workbook with harder examples or reading comprehension passages or crossword puzzles or sodukus whatever she would like. When she is done with her work and she did it with a good attitude or however the teacher likes it should be done, she gets to do that special workbook. Make it exciting. The first day she can color the cover and put on cute stickers.... Keep it practical, simple, and positive.

Give it maybe 3 weeks. If it's going smoothly you choose another skill from the list.

You'll need to collaborate with the teacher and be respectful as to what works for her and for the classroom. Like you can't have your daughter show up with a huge amazing savings bag and start doing scrapbooking. But I'm sure the teacher will be open to work with you so she can handle her in the classroom.

Loads of luck, May she use all her kochos for the best!

amother

Sapphire

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:05 am

My child's struggles are somewhat different, but there was a key factor mentioned here that it worth highlighting.

Someone said their mom worked hard to educate the school. I can tell you from experience that it isn't easy and today probably even harder because there are a million shnooks with a special ed degree who will diagnose you, your family, your kid, your future grandkids, etc without being open to hearing you. There is an enormous focus today on making school work for the teachers and stuffing your kid into tutoring, therapy, shadows, whatever just so that they feel someone is managing the problem.

But if you can nicely and kindly educate the staff, this is probably the single most effective thing that will help your child remain in a mainstream yeshiva environment.

I have found that it is way more helpful to go to the teacher directly and stay away from principals and administration. Hatzlacha!

amother

Sienna

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:07 am

I hate to say it but things won't get better for your daugher in that kind of environment. She is not a kid who is ever going to be happy sitting bored all day without any accademic challenges. You either need to move her to a place that can actually accomodate her academic needs or homeschool her and make sure she can participate in lots of other extra-curriulars with the neighborhood kids. Leaving things as they are now is setting her up to fail as she gets older. The academic experience isn't going to improve and as she gets older she will have no reason to comply with what the school wants.