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Women working - Normal hishtadlus?
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:31 am
Is it considered normal hishtadlus for women to work?

I'm so confused. IRL I hear that women need to work nowadays. On imamother I see over and over again, that posters are saying that women working is not considered normal hishtadlus, and we need to have more bitachon, and rely on Hashem.

I'm so curious what you all think? What's the right answer?
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:34 am
My husband claims that him working is hishtadlus for parnasa because the man is mechayav to bring in money. I gave up my job. I couldn't handle running the house, caring for my family, and having a job. Money is not everything. We downgraded alot and I don't regret it. I'd rather live frugal when needed than go back to work.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:34 am
Depends. Hishtadlus is the cover story for your money to come in so that it is not a blatant miracle. So if you can see that with a few changes your husband can easily make enough, and the wife doesn't want to work, then go for it.
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amother




Broom
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:39 am
I think hishtadlus is individual and depends on values and capabilities. For example, I work 9-5 in a job that I love. My husband works too and we are not lacking in money. However, we are young and do not yet own a home, so there is always room to save more. I have opportunities to work evenings/weekends (I am a therapist) but I choose not to because I feel like it would diminish my own and my family’s quality of life. I think working evenings and weekends would be beyond my hishtadlus.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 1:51 pm
Let me ask this question a different way.

If a family is not making ends meet, is it normal hishtadlus for the wife to look for a job? Does it matter how old the youngest is? What her earning potential is? Her emotional/physical stamina?

If she has the potential to make a nice amount of money and she has the time/stamina, is that her obligation? If she would hire more help so that she can work would that change the picture? Or is it always the husband's job to earn money no matter what? And if so, then why do so many frum women work?

I see so many threads saying that it's not a woman's hishtadlus to work, yet the reality that I see is that most frum women do work. What am I missing here?
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amother




Puce
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 1:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Let me ask this question a different way.

If a family is not making ends meet, is it normal hishtadlus for the wife to look for a job? Does it matter how old the youngest is? What her earning potential is? Her emotional/physical stamina?

If she has the potential to make a nice amount of money and she has the time/stamina, is that her obligation? If she would hire more help so that she can work would that change the picture? Or is it always the husband's job to earn money no matter what? And if so, then why do so many frum women work?

I see so many threads saying that it's not a woman's hishtadlus to work, yet the reality that I see is that most frum women do work. What am I missing here?


I think in many cases it is hishtadlus for a woman to work.
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amother




Dimgray
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:02 pm
If someone doesn't have enough money and the woman decides she doesn't want to be inconvenienced and work, then that seems just dumb to me. There is also a belief that we don't depend on miracles. So sitting around and waiting for money to magically appear seems foolish to me. But to each his own.
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:11 pm
amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:
If someone doesn't have enough money and the woman decides she doesn't want to be inconvenienced and work, then that seems just dumb to me. There is also a belief that we don't depend on miracles. So sitting around and waiting for money to magically appear seems foolish to me. But to each his own.


No, it's not dumb if a women chooses not to go to work even if they're poor. This is something that's a personal decision and different things work for different families. Often times, the kids end up paying the price for it. I believe that a mother belongs at home with her kids (and for sure at least be home when the kids leave to school and come home) and that my husband working 14 hours a day is hishtadlus enough.
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amother




Impatiens
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:14 pm
It all depends on what making ends meet means. Nowadays ppl consider luxuries to be necessities so to them doing without is not making ends meet. I'd rather live frugally on the one salary. I don't understand how it's ok that the kollel lifestyle is respectable to be living on the wife's salary, but to some ppl it's almost criminal and considered taking tzedaka (ie tuition break) if the wife is home raising her own kids on the husbands salary. Just my two cents.
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:15 pm
I never saw a thread saying women shouldn't work. Not that I saw every single thread here, but where are you taking this from? Are you being pressured to take a job and you don't want to?

Barring mitigating circumstances, if you don't have enough money, then yes, taking a job is the right hishtadlus IMHO, but you can discuss it with wise people in your own life.
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amother




Bluebell
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:15 pm
OP, I think you have a few good answers here.

For the poster who said she couldn't manage keeping house, being a wife and mother, and also working, then it's not proper hishtadlus for her to work.

I always thought I'd work full-time. Now, having struggled with mental health largely due to stress from my job, I'm starting to reconsider. I don't think I'd ever give up working altogether, but perhaps working the number of hours I have and/or in the field I have is not correct hishtadlus.

Ultimately, this is a personal decision, not a communal one. If you have this question in your own life, find a discerning Rav with whom you can discuss your concerns. If it's a general question, there's no one-size-fits-all answer.

It appears to me that most frum women work part-time nowadays.
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allthingsblue




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:17 pm
amother [ Impatiens ] wrote:
It all depends on what making ends meet means. Nowadays ppl consider luxuries to be necessities so to them doing without is not making ends meet. I'd rather live frugally on the one salary. I don't understand how it's ok that the kollel lifestyle is respectable to be living on the wife's salary, but to some ppl it's almost criminal and considered taking tzedaka (ie tuition break) if the wife is home raising her own kids on the husbands salary. Just my two cents.


I don’t think it’s the same people saying those two things.
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amother




Dimgray
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:22 pm
For those who think the woman shouldn't work...do you think they should also cut back like not have a cleaning lady, live frugally, no eating out etc...or do you think it's ok to have no money, woman doesn't work and do all these things too and hope Hashem covers all the bills?
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:25 pm
amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:
For those who think the woman shouldn't work...do you think they should also cut back like not have a cleaning lady, live frugally, no eating out etc...or do you think it's ok to have no money, woman doesn't work and do all these things too and hope Hashem covers all the bills?


As I said upthread, we cut down a lot and live a very frugal lifestyle so I should be able to be home. We don't go out to eat, I don't have cleaning help, no vacations, don't buy expensive clothes, make simple simchas....
There are plenty people that can afford a higher standard without the women working.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:25 pm
amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:
For those who think the woman shouldn't work...do you think they should also cut back like not have a cleaning lady, live frugally, no eating out etc...or do you think it's ok to have no money, woman doesn't work and do all these things too and hope Hashem covers all the bills?

This is my question as well.
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amother




Hyacinth
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:27 pm
I have worked for almost 30 years to help with parnassah. My job is physically demanding. I am in my 50s now and it is getting too hard. So I am planning to retire next year and count on HKBH sending my share of the parnassah through my husband. He works for himself and does not have a set income. I feel that I did my hishtadlus all these years but now I just can't anymore.
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amother




Hyssop
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:28 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
No, it's not dumb if a women chooses not to go to work even if they're poor. This is something that's a personal decision and different things work for different families. Often times, the kids end up paying the price for it. I believe that a mother belongs at home with her kids (and for sure at least be home when the kids leave to school and come home) and that my husband working 14 hours a day is hishtadlus enough.


So can you support me? I would love to quit my job. Or cut back my hours.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:31 pm
I think the million dollar question is, if man was the one who was cursed with the ol of parnasah, why is it considered hishtadlus for women to work as well?
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:31 pm
amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:
So can you support me? I would love to quit my job. Or cut back my hours.


Just because a woman doesn't work, it doesn't mean that we're rich.
I do what works for us and you should do what works for you.
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amother




Red
 

Post Thu, Apr 28 2022, 2:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think the million dollar question is, if man was the one who was cursed with the ol of parnasah, why is it considered hishtadlus for women to work as well?


Who says it's hishtadlus? I think this is a good discussion to have with a Rav or mentor.
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