Home

Why isn't buying life insurance a value in frum society?
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances


View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Genius




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 1:57 pm
WitchKitty wrote:
If my husband c"v dies, I would have no idea how, where, or why to invest money.

Your agent might be able to help you. Otherwise I’m sure there are askanim who would be willing to advise (especially if a campaign won’t be needed)
Life insurance should be calculated that the insurance payout, when invested, should yield returns enough for you to live off for a year. So if you need 100,000 to cover annual expenses you should ideally have a 3 million policy. When you do this the principal never needs to be touched and you can live off the dividends for the rest of your life.
I don’t think it’s value to live like a beggar all your life so that you can die rich. People should use their seichel to decide if and how much life insurance to buy. Where I live it’s definitely considered important. But to take tzedaka to afford life insurance is ridiculous imo.
Back to top

amother




Bergamot
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 2:15 pm
One case I was involved in there was a nice size insurance policy. But there were quite a few young children and a woman who had been lucky enough to be a SAHM until then all of the sudden losing her husband and her livelihood in a moment. The rabbanim and askanim felt strongly that there should be a campaign run in order to raise money for the future simchas. Unfortunately with so many tragedies around you need to do it right away even if the money is not necessary for the short term.

BH we are a nation of rachmanim and I for one feel so happy to know if something were ever to happen to my family I could count on complete strangers to step in and help.
Back to top

amother




Clematis
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 2:53 pm
Point 1.

Only half of US society has any type of life insurance.
Only difference is frum people have organizations willing to help and you won’t end up homeless.

Point 2.

Life insurance is more less an illusion.
You need to be financially well to afford a decent policy. Coincidentally the more financially well you are, the less you need the insurance to stay afloat after a death.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 2:59 pm
Fox wrote:
I think I need to take up meditation or yoga or something. Sometimes the ignorance floating around is incredible.

Several posters have mentioned rates of $300 to $1000 a year for $1 million dollars worth of life insurance. Very nice. That's the rate when you're in your 20s -- and that rate is typically good for a decade.

Here's a newsflash: life doesn't end at age 35 or 40. Or even 50. Do you think your insurance rate remains the same? Even most universal life policies no longer lock in a permanent rate, to my knowledge. The cost of $1 million in life insurance coverage goes up after each 10-year-period, and sometimes after 5 years. When my DH and I looked at $1 million in coverage about 15 years ago, the cost would have been close to $100,000 a year for a 45-year-old.

Perhaps there are cheaper policies out there; we ended up not pursuing that level of coverage for various reasons. But I'm not sure how to politely respond to the idea that the OP and others appear to believe -- that everyone in the world is 20-30 years old and that any random 50-year-old can afford $100K a year for life insurance.

THANK YOU!

I feel like the women on this site truly believe that everyone in the world is 30 years old.
Back to top

amother




Orchid
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 3:09 pm
The cost of the policy also depends on what age it expires. A policy that will take someone through their 90s will be way more expensive than one that ends at 65.

A few years ago I looked at prices for dh who was turning 40. Iirc it would've been around $300 a month. Again, if memory serves, I was looking at policies in the $500,000 range, and they would have expired when he turned 65. That's more than $1,000, but far less than $100,000.
Back to top

Sprinkles1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 3:22 pm
Quote:
If people can't afford something for insurance or tuition or whatever, the community can help them. It's far cheaper for the community to help people pay insurance premiums than pay $2M sums when tragedy strikes. They community is going to "bail" them out anyway, so they might as well help them when it's cheaper.


No, this is where you're wrong. You dont know how many people are living paycheck to paycheck and cant afford the $1000+ for a life insurance yearly. It will NOT be cheaper to raise the funds to pay for life insurance every year for all those who cant afford it.

(And besides, many people would not donate to pay for insurance premiums, bec.all insurances are a gamble, and their donations might just go to waste.)
Back to top

mizle10




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 4:55 pm
amother [ Offwhite ] wrote:
Okay, you've convinced me. Now I need $350 a month to cover that policy for me and DH. Can I tell you where to send the check?


And not just for you and your DH, for every family that can't afford it. Including people who are older or have medical conditions. Every single month. Because this is somehow being more responsible with tzedakah money than helping out the once in a blue moon almana.

*sarcasm alert*
Back to top

amother




Jean
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 5:46 pm
Sprinkles1 wrote:
Quote:
If people can't afford something for insurance or tuition or whatever, the community can help them. It's far cheaper for the community to help people pay insurance premiums than pay $2M sums when tragedy strikes. They community is going to "bail" them out anyway, so they might as well help them when it's cheaper.


No, this is where you're wrong. You dont know how many people are living paycheck to paycheck and cant afford the $1000+ for a life insurance yearly. It will NOT be cheaper to raise the funds to pay for life insurance every year for all those who cant afford it.

(And besides, many people would not donate to pay for insurance premiums, bec.all insurances are a gamble, and their donations might just go to waste.)


Exactly this. OP's entire claim is that it would be cheaper for the community to pay the premiums than to give $$ when someone is niftar. I highly doubt this is true, purely from a business standpoint. This is how insurance companies earn a profit after all.

Also I don't view those campaigns as shnorring at all, I find people want to show they care & it's very heartwarming.

My dh & myself have about $1ml each, it's pretty expensive & we're young & healthy. $1ml is max 5 years not including simchas.
Back to top

amother




Lightcyan
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 5:48 pm
DH suffered terribly from covid, it was a very frightening time.
He also is unable to get a decent policy as he has a complicated medical history.

He doesn’t have good life insurance coverage.

DH left kolel and worked incredibly hard, I have been working full time for years. We managed to pay off our mortgage and buy some real estate. We are 31 and 35 years old.

I also undertook yearly CPD so I feel secure in my ability to earn a good salary.

It’s not all about life insurance, babes!
It’s about being as financially responsible as possible. And that’s for every individual to decide for themselves.
Back to top

amother




Opal
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 5:55 pm
We have life insurance through BMG and there’s a lot of awareness about how necessary it is. That doesn’t take away the need for fundraising though.

amother [ Bergamot ] wrote:
One case I was involved in there was a nice size insurance policy. But there were quite a few young children and a woman who had been lucky enough to be a SAHM until then all of the sudden losing her husband and her livelihood in a moment. The rabbanim and askanim felt strongly that there should be a campaign run in order to raise money for the future simchas. Unfortunately with so many tragedies around you need to do it right away even if the money is not necessary for the short term.

BH we are a nation of rachmanim and I for one feel so happy to know if something were ever to happen to my family I could count on complete strangers to step in and help.
Exactly this. Any fundraising for the kids’ weddings is ideally done immediately after the person is niftar, regardless of the kids’ ages.
Back to top

amother




Offwhite
 

Post Mon, May 09 2022, 6:35 pm
We are part of Areivim, where members give $7 per orphan or almanah/alman, so that $100,000 can be given for each unmarried family member and for the surviving spouse. It's not life insurance, but it reduces the amount of embarrassment the family has to go through with fundraising campaigns.
Back to top

amother




Plum
 

Post Tue, May 10 2022, 12:11 am
amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:
If only it were so simple. It's not possible for everyone to get.


But often I see it is a 25 year old or 30 year old who died and has infants that need support for 18 years.
If you buy it as a newlywed it is way cheaper and you can get a 20 year policy… then it’s a lot less time for the community to try to raise money for plus existing funding can help- it would be weddings but not housing/food for 18 years.

Why isn’t it taught in kallah /chosson class? Or high school economics type classes?
Back to top

amother




Moonstone
 

Post Tue, May 10 2022, 12:23 am
Fox wrote:
I think I need to take up meditation or yoga or something. Sometimes the ignorance floating around is incredible.

Several posters have mentioned rates of $300 to $1000 a year for $1 million dollars worth of life insurance. Very nice. That's the rate when you're in your 20s -- and that rate is typically good for a decade.

Here's a newsflash: life doesn't end at age 35 or 40. Or even 50. Do you think your insurance rate remains the same? Even most universal life policies no longer lock in a permanent rate, to my knowledge. The cost of $1 million in life insurance coverage goes up after each 10-year-period, and sometimes after 5 years. When my DH and I looked at $1 million in coverage about 15 years ago, the cost would have been close to $100,000 a year for a 45-year-old.

Perhaps there are cheaper policies out there; we ended up not pursuing that level of coverage for various reasons. But I'm not sure how to politely respond to the idea that the OP and others appear to believe -- that everyone in the world is 20-30 years old and that any random 50-year-old can afford $100K a year for life insurance.


It's also true that income generally rises with age. If a man gets a policy when he's young and healthy, and gets used to having the premium as a non-negotiable expense, he's better off than if he wakes up to the need for insurance in middle age.

While we should certainly open our hearts and wallets to widows and orphans, one of the kindest things we can do is to make sure that they are never in a position of need.

Perhaps we can add a life insurance policy to the list of things a young couple absolutely must have.
Back to top

amother




Plum
 

Post Tue, May 10 2022, 12:38 am
About Areivim…
Please read the fine print.
They technically do not have to pay during any major calamity where a large number died. So the next pandemic, a war, tsunami…
They only pay widows if they have THREE or more unmarried kids.
They only pay for unmarried kids if they are under 32.
If someone is considered too unhealthy when they joined they won’t pay out. (But will they tell you this in advance or are you paying in for years first?). It says at death they ask for medical records to decide if someone gets any funds.
They also can decide to change how much they give out to any case at any time.
They control the trust and decide when to disperse funds.
They have “predetermined criteria” that they don’t disclose but can decide how they operate, give out funds etc.

They also refer to a rabbinical board a few times on the website but never list who it is…
Back to top

amother




Acacia
 

Post Tue, May 10 2022, 12:41 am
I have life insurance, DH does not. He has a disease which no one will cover, and he doesn't have much longer to live, al pi teva. So when he dies and leaves a widow and young kids with nothing we will look irresponsible. If I die, my family will get enough of a payout to be ok. So are we responsible or irresponsible?

Careful how you judge. Most situations have more behind the scenes than you know.
Back to top

amother




Offwhite
 

Post Tue, May 10 2022, 12:44 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
About Areivim…
Please read the fine print.
They technically do not have to pay during any major calamity where a large number died. So the next pandemic, a war, tsunami…
They only pay widows if they have THREE or more unmarried kids.
They only pay for unmarried kids if they are under 32.
If someone is considered too unhealthy when they joined they won’t pay out. (But will they tell you this in advance or are you paying in for years first?). It says at death they ask for medical records to decide if someone gets any funds.
They also can decide to change how much they give out to any case at any time.
They control the trust and decide when to disperse funds.
They have “predetermined criteria” that they don’t disclose but can decide how they operate, give out funds etc.

They also refer to a rabbinical board a few times on the website but never list who it is…

It's a Tzedakah. Not insurance. Nobody should consider it insurance.

Absolute worst case scenario, if someone R"L finds out that they don't qualify, they will have to have a larger fundraiser made for them instead of getting Tzedakah through this system.

They reserve the right not to give during a mass calamity, but they chose to give for all of the covid deaths, while making it optional for members. (This is the main reason they have this clause, to keep the monthly payments reasonable for members.)

They don't control the trust. Local Rabbis do.

All of these restrictions are in place to make the program sustainable.

I agree that they could be more transparent, but overall what they are doing is a huge Chesed.

It's not a perfect system. But for someone who can't get life insurance, it reduces the amount of humiliating fundraising necessary to be done on their behalf.
Back to top

amother




Plum
 

Post Wed, May 11 2022, 5:05 pm
amother [ Offwhite ] wrote:
It's a Tzedakah. Not insurance. Nobody should consider it insurance.

Absolute worst case scenario, if someone R"L finds out that they don't qualify, they will have to have a larger fundraiser made for them instead of getting Tzedakah through this system.

They reserve the right not to give during a mass calamity, but they chose to give for all of the covid deaths, while making it optional for members. (This is the main reason they have this clause, to keep the monthly payments reasonable for members.)

They don't control the trust. Local Rabbis do.

All of these restrictions are in place to make the program sustainable.

I agree that they could be more transparent, but overall what they are doing is a huge Chesed.

It's not a perfect system. But for someone who can't get life insurance, it reduces the amount of humiliating fundraising necessary to be done on their behalf.


But people use it thinking they are "covered" like a life insurance policy.
They dont always tell people they wont receive so they pay in and never will be able to get.
There is no listed rabbinic supervision. Who is behind it?
They also said that even though they list a specific amount will be collected/distributed, how much actually gets distributed to any family is up to them. On a prior website they ran it said if the family has any life insurance they get nothing from areivim. I wonder if this is similar to that...

It isnt transparent and it isnt insurance. People shouldn't assume they will get anything from it even if they gave in for years...
Back to top

amother




Yellow
 

Post Wed, May 11 2022, 5:10 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
But people use it thinking they are "covered" like a life insurance policy.
They dont always tell people they wont receive so they pay in and never will be able to get.
There is no listed rabbinic supervision. Who is behind it?
They also said that even though they list a specific amount will be collected/distributed, how much actually gets distributed to any family is up to them. On a prior website they ran it said if the family has any life insurance they get nothing from areivim. I wonder if this is similar to that...

It isnt transparent and it isnt insurance. People shouldn't assume they will get anything from it even if they gave in for years...

It's still worth it to give. Huge mitzvah to help almanos and yesomim out in this anonymous way.

It's definitely tzedakah and not life insurance at all. What you're gaining is that if chas vsholom you are in need, you don't have your face plastered over every website and mailed to every one of your neighbors. That's worth it, I think.
Back to top

amother




Offwhite
 

Post Wed, May 11 2022, 5:18 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
But people use it thinking they are "covered" like a life insurance policy.
They dont always tell people they wont receive so they pay in and never will be able to get.
There is no listed rabbinic supervision. Who is behind it?
They also said that even though they list a specific amount will be collected/distributed, how much actually gets distributed to any family is up to them. On a prior website they ran it said if the family has any life insurance they get nothing from areivim. I wonder if this is similar to that...

It isnt transparent and it isnt insurance. People shouldn't assume they will get anything from it even if they gave in for years...

There's a long DansDeals forum thread on this subject and many people reported that payouts were given even when they had life insurance, and invited people to contact them if they wanted to speak with the people behind it.
Back to top

amother




Slateblue
 

Post Wed, May 11 2022, 5:34 pm
I didn't read the whole thread but in my young, long term learning circles, it's normal for the husband to have life insurance and the wife to not. For now, if anything we're to happen to me ch"v the older single women would flock to marry my husband and either support him or they'd have a 2 income household. Sad situation but unfortunately true and proven often. But if anything we're to happen to my husband ch"v I would really need the money so we only have one plan.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 4 of 5 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Lake Riviera, Brick - Frum Community?
by amother
6 Today at 9:19 am View last post
Health Insurance Broker
by amother
3 Yesterday at 11:54 am View last post
Vermont isn’t working out, so onto the next…..
by amother
25 Yesterday at 10:59 am View last post
Salary for healthcare insurance worker
by amother
0 Fri, Aug 12 2022, 8:19 am View last post
Insurance Office
by amother
15 Thu, Aug 11 2022, 5:31 pm View last post