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I shouldn’t be surprised.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:10 pm
This afternoon I was walking down 13th in bp and like usual it was quite crowded.
I was rushing to a grocery with my children and I was right behind this lady. We’ll call her lady A.

Then there’s guy B who’s asking for tzedaka and he is holding out his hand.
Lady A pauses and my older child starts getting antsy then lady a says to guy B rudely “you don’t even keep shabbos” and walked away
I saw the whole exchange and my heart mamesh broke and I just didn’t know WHAT to think.
I only carry a debit card so I wasn’t able to give a dollar unfortunately (my husband does the tzedaka thing)
My first thought when I heard those words out of her mouth “did I hear you right?” Then “why would you say that” then “how do you know how religious or not religious the guy is?”

I get some people do take advantage of people who give tzedaka but it just really rubbed me the wrong way and I’m trying to forget it but I’m just so absolutely shocked and I’m surprised that I’m surprised and so ashamed I didn’t say something to the lady. I went around her to get into the grocery and she gave me quite a piercing look so whatever I wanted to say just went POOF.

Okay, I’m done.


Last edited by amother on Thu, May 12 2022, 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:13 pm
Maybe she knows more about him. Maybe she's had bad experience with him in the past.
We can never know the other side of the story.
I had already that I spoke harshly to a collector after having bad experience with him.
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amother




Saddlebrown
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:15 pm
Sometimes we are caught so off guard and we don’t have the words.
I don’t think you should have said anything to lady A.
She just sounds rude and she would have probably insulted you as well.
Maybe next time you see the collector you can make sure to have a dollar. Maybe it will make you feel better.
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Not_in_my_town




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:21 pm
We were once in Eretz Yisroel for Sukkos and on Shabbos a tour group came into the Geulah area.

We were eating the seudah when we heard someone screaming "Shabbos! Shabbos!"

We looked out and saw a guy standing in the middle of the street facing the tour group screaming at them.

My husband ran down six flights and confronted the guy, telling him, "Yom Kippur won't be m'chaper for you! When you're six feet under it won't be m'chaper for you! Do you know what you just did to those people who came in respectfully and wanted to see the community?!"

It's sad, but some people have bad chinuch when it comes to non-Jews, not religious Jews or Jews from a different sect.

It wasn't your RESPONSIBILITY to say anything to her, but if you'd had a good comment that would have made her think, maybe you should have. Even if you had, there's no guarantee she'd have listened.

It's heartbreaking to see elitist attitudes, especially toward people who are vulnerable.
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:24 pm
To me it sounds like there was a previous history there. Not that she wasn’t rude, but there was probably a reason for the rudeness. Otherwise most people would just ignore the man if they didn’t want to give.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:27 pm
True, but I always thought a yid always gives if they are able to another yid whether or not he keeps shabbos… I just spoke to my friend and she confirmed so too.
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Not_in_my_town




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:34 pm
On the dan l'kaff zechus spectrum, could the collector have been a non-Jew dressing up as a Jew, thereby causing her reply? Did she maybe feel she was being deceived?

I once had it that a non-Jew was dressed up as a Jew, and even though I knew she was trying to fake me out, I wanted to help. I offered to buy her a sandwich rather than handing over cash.

We walked into the grocery store and she grabbed a wagon and started throwing in cleaning supplies, food, toilet paper and then motioned for me to pay for it.

I was shocked and told her that now she lost her sandwich...

To be clear, I would happily give tzedaka to a non-Jew who asks for help. I don't like to give to someone dressing up, trying to fool me, nor do I like to give to someone who wants to take advantage of me, no matter what religion or race they are.

I could understand the woman's reply if it was a non-Shabbos keeper dressing up as a Shabbos keeper to fool people into giving away their money.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:38 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
True, but I always thought a yid always gives if they are able to another yid whether or not he keeps shabbos… I just spoke to my friend in willi and she confirmed so too.

Even if you choose not to give, speaking rudely is still not acceptable.
OP, I don't think confronting the woman would've done anything except make more of a scene and gotten her angry etc.
Good for you that it bothered you and you were shocked. Many would just walk by and not even care.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:41 pm
Not_in_my_town wrote:
On the dan l'kaff zechus spectrum, could the collector have been a non-Jew dressing up as a Jew, thereby causing her reply? Did she maybe feel she was being deceived?

I once had it that a non-Jew was dressed up as a Jew, and even though I knew she was trying to fake me out, I wanted to help. I offered to buy her a sandwich rather than handing over cash.

We walked into the grocery store and she grabbed a wagon and started throwing in cleaning supplies, food, toilet paper and then motioned for me to pay for it.

I was shocked and told her that now she lost her sandwich...

To be clear, I would happily give tzedaka to a non-Jew who asks for help. I don't like to give to someone dressing up, trying to fool me, nor do I like to give to someone who wants to take advantage of me, no matter what religion or race they are.

I could understand the woman's reply if it was a non-Shabbos keeper dressing up as a Shabbos keeper to fool people into giving away their money.


oh. Okay. That’s more understandable. But to speak so nasty to someone going out there (I know the begging feeling. It isn’t good and it feels embarrassing but if you have to ask you have to get over the embarrassment and ask) just makes the whole thing a lot more sadder.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:44 pm
Yeah, I wanted to ask her “how do you know he’s not shomer shabbos” but decided against it instead. Bh.
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Not_in_my_town




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 9:46 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
oh. Okay. That’s more understandable. But to speak so nasty to someone going out there (I know the begging feeling. It isn’t good and it feels embarrassing but if you have to ask you have to get over the embarrassment and ask) just makes the whole thing a lot more sadder.


Agreed. It is very sad.
A person with good chinuch, emotional sensitivity and completely healthy wouldn't have said something like that.
I think we can assume that:

1) Maybe she felt he was trying to take advantage of her and she having a particular stressful day and lost herself

2) She was missing one of the three things I wrote above.

Either way, it's definately not Yiddishkeit-condoned to speak that way. But it does make a bad impression on onlookers. Sad
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 10:09 pm
Not_in_my_town wrote:
Agreed. It is very sad.
A person with good chinuch, emotional sensitivity and completely healthy wouldn't have said something like that.
I think we can assume that:

1) Maybe she felt he was trying to take advantage of her and she having a particular stressful day and lost herself

2) She was missing one of the three things I wrote above.

Either way, it's definately not Yiddishkeit-condoned to speak that way. But it does make a bad impression on onlookers. Sad


And for the kids too 🫣 my son saw the whole thing. Doubt he understood completely since he’s only 2.5
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 10:35 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
oh. Okay. That’s more understandable. But to speak so nasty to someone going out there (I know the begging feeling. It isn’t good and it feels embarrassing but if you have to ask you have to get over the embarrassment and ask) just makes the whole thing a lot more sadder.


There's really no way for you to know if there's a story behind it. There are plenty crazies collectors in BP that constantly harass people. Many collectors are non jews dressed up as jews. It is not nice of you to judge her so poorly and make a thread about this titled "I shouldn't be surprised."
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 10:40 pm
Many collectors are not jewish but put on a tichel and cry victim. Perhaps they already conversed in the past and she is still upset about what happened there last time?
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Not_in_my_town




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 10:48 pm
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
There's really no way for you to know if there's a story behind it. There are plenty crazies collectors in BP that constantly harass people. Many collectors are non jews dressed up as jews. It is not nice of you to judge her so poorly and make a thread about this titled "I shouldn't be surprised."


Are you that lady?

Surprised

Yes, there are scammers but that doesn't justify being nasty.

And as for craziness, that's never, ever an excuse to be mean. People are blessed with varying levels of mental and emotional faculties. Be thankful that you are operating with a full deck. Show those with less a little caring, please.

And, as a BT who's lived in BP, Willy and Monsey, I can tell you that when I first came into the community, I was under the impression that Yidden are always perfectly well behaved, I mean -- Yidden have the TORAH! How can they NOT be well behaved.

But you know what they say, "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews."

Humans are humans, always struggling to grow despite forces that pull us down.

Even though the Torah is perfect, we aren't. And that can be a harsh reality to accept.

I can only speak as a BT, but I see the same thing with my daughter who is FFB.

When someone isn't behaving the way we imagine a Jew should behave, it can be shocking and painful for those of us who have a strong sense of responsibility to do what a Jew has to do -- not that us idealists are perfect ourselves.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 10:54 pm
Not_in_my_town wrote:
Are you that lady?

Surprised

Yes, there are scammers but that doesn't justify being nasty.

And as for craziness, that's never, ever an excuse to be mean. People are blessed with varying levels of mental and emotional faculties. Be thankful that you are operating with a full deck. Show those with less a little caring, please.

And, as a BT who's lived in BP, Willy and Monsey, I can tell you that when I first came into the community, I was under the impression that Yidden are always perfectly well behaved, I mean -- Yidden have the TORAH! How can they NOT be well behaved.

But you know what they say, "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews."

Humans are humans, always struggling to grow despite forces that pull us down.

Even though the Torah is perfect, we aren't. And that can be a harsh reality to accept.

I can only speak as a BT, but I see the same thing with my daughter who is FFB.

When someone isn't behaving the way we imagine a Jew should behave, it can be shocking and painful for those of us who have a strong sense of responsibility to do what a Jew has to do -- not that us idealists are perfect ourselves.


Yup! 100% agree. I am not bashing that lady. I am shocked to see that she was speaking so rudely to that man.

I guess I’m still learning that people are people.
I am a convert in fact.
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 11:02 pm
amother [ Aqua ] wrote:
There's really no way for you to know if there's a story behind it. There are plenty crazies collectors in BP that constantly harass people. Many collectors are non jews dressed up as jews. It is not nice of you to judge her so poorly and make a thread about this titled "I shouldn't be surprised."


How do you know they are not Jews? I’m really truly curious.
I was raised non Jewish and bh I was raised properly with manners etc, but honestly this lady’s rudeness was uncalled for especially to somebody who’s begging. I know the feeling of having to go out there and ask for basic stuff. I did it at the beginning of my geirus journey when I had no tznius clothes aside from a maxi skirt and a shell and some tops that were too tight (according to my now tznius standards) or a job etc. Its really embarrassing and nerve wracking especially not knowing how people will respond. Bh the people I asked were nice enough to give me some hand me downs, and helped me get settled somewhat in the community I was living at the time.
Either way I’m rambling now so will stop.
Whether it’s a Jew or non Jew no excuse to speak to someone like that 😣😣
Usually if a tzedaka person stops me I say “I’m sorry I don’t have cash on me right now, Hatzlocha!”
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amother




Aquamarine
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 11:04 pm
There’s a collector who collects money
For a specific medical treatment. My
Mother asked him how much he needs and gave him the full amount.
He’s still on the street asking for money. When my mother asked him why
He didn’t do it, he ignored her…
You bet I don’t give him anything anymore.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 11:46 pm
Not_in_my_town wrote:
Are you that lady?

Surprised

Yes, there are scammers but that doesn't justify being nasty.

And as for craziness, that's never, ever an excuse to be mean. People are blessed with varying levels of mental and emotional faculties. Be thankful that you are operating with a full deck. Show those with less a little caring, please.

And, as a BT who's lived in BP, Willy and Monsey, I can tell you that when I first came into the community, I was under the impression that Yidden are always perfectly well behaved, I mean -- Yidden have the TORAH! How can they NOT be well behaved.

But you know what they say, "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews."

Humans are humans, always struggling to grow despite forces that pull us down.

Even though the Torah is perfect, we aren't. And that can be a harsh reality to accept.

I can only speak as a BT, but I see the same thing with my daughter who is FFB.

When someone isn't behaving the way we imagine a Jew should behave, it can be shocking and painful for those of us who have a strong sense of responsibility to do what a Jew has to do -- not that us idealists are perfect ourselves.


No, I'm not that lady. (And it's quite rude of you to ask if I am.) I just have enough bad experience with crazy collectors to not judge her badly and understand where she's coming from.
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amother




Aqua
 

Post Thu, May 12 2022, 11:51 pm
OP, I cannot even tell you the amount of times I've been verbally assaulted and attacked when telling a collector that I don't have money on me now. I've been called all sorts of terrible names and threatening with all sorts of threats. A collector spit at my shoes and said "feh feh". I've had a collector trying to block me with his leg keep my from walking further. No one is supposed to put up with such behavior.
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