I shouldn’t be surprised.

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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Not_in_my_town

Thu, May 12 2022, 11:54 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

No, I'm not that lady. (And it's quite rude of you to ask if I am.) I just have enough bad experience with crazy collectors to not judge her badly and understand where she's coming from.

And I've had my money thrown back in my face because it's not enough and been cursed out.

Bad experiences are not justifications for bad behaviors.

To think it is to have the mentality of an abuser. ("If I don't like the way someone acts I can be mean.")

And yes, that behavior was abusive.

If you really can't be a mentch, at least ignore. Don't say nasty things. There is no excuse.

amother

Aqua

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:01 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

We have the same chiyuv to judge others favorably than to be nice to everyone.....
Perhaps it was the last straw that broke the camel's back, we can never know. We don't need to comment and make a big deal and open a thread about everything we see. We're humans, no one is perfect. You be good for yourself and don't be busy with what others are doing.

amother

Seagreen

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:06 am

My husband and I just decided we are not giving any money to collectors on the street. We have too many bad stories. I'm sorry if they have to beg (assuming theyre even legit, I have my doubts) but my orphaned nieces and nephews are also a charity case and I'd rather give my money to them. I'd rather give my money to vetted organizations or to the shul on my block that discreetly distributes food to my own neighbors.

amother

Aqua

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:07 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

Many of them are homeless and sleep in shomer shabbos and use the money for drugs....

amother

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:14 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

OP, I cannot even tell you the amount of times I've been verbally assaulted and attacked when telling a collector that I don't have money on me now. I've been called all sorts of terrible names and threatening with all sorts of threats. A collector spit at my shoes and said "feh feh". I've had a collector trying to block me with his leg keep my from walking further. No one is supposed to put up with such behavior.

That’s horrible. I’m sorry you had to go through that.

amother

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:16 am

So I’m still curious.

How would you know which tzedaka collectors are non jews? If they are dressed like us Jews. What gives them away?

amother

Mintcream

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:29 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

No, I'm not that lady. (And it's quite rude of you to ask if I am.) I just have enough bad experience with crazy collectors to not judge her badly and understand where she's coming from.

how are her actions in any way justifiable
this website is so wacky sometimes I cant handle it

amother

Holly

Fri, May 13 2022, 12:39 am

Maybe the collector told her that he needs money to support a poor family lekavod shabbos and maybe she has seen him on shabbos and knows that he doesn't keep it.

It's also probable that she knows him personally. Maybe she and dh went way out of their way to help him and realized they were being exploited.

MY dh is the most generous, kind guy and he used to give tons of money to these guys. He would give them money for courses, wardrobes, and so many other things. But the whopper stories they would give him would get more and more extravagant and no, they never did take the courses that he gave them money for. If they don't care about helping themselves then there is a limit to how much dh can help. Eventually dh realized that these people were exploiting his kindness and it was very painful for them. If one of these people asked me for money I would probably say something nasty to them.

ETA that I mean that it was painful for dh to realize that they were exploiting him. He would spend hours with them, inviting these people into our home, giving them food and love but they just viewed him as a sucker with cash.

amother

Blonde

Fri, May 13 2022, 2:11 am

When someone behaves badly in public, assume that there's something going on that you don't know about. There's almost always a history behind the scenes.

Also, and this is off topic, it's good to carry.a little bit off cash on you at all times. And women have the same obligation as men do in tzedaka, so there's no reason to delegate it all to your husband.

amother

Fri, May 13 2022, 2:17 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Im really really bad with cash. Once someone asked me to please cash out 5 singles and I literally took out 5 5 dollar bills. Later that lady berated me in front of her family, asking me if I was born here and do I know what singles are etc in a rude voice. She meant 5 1$ bills and I was so so embarrassed. And I had really awkward moments where I was holding up the line cuz I stuff bills in anything that can hold something and it was just stressful and on top of that to have the cashier or sales lady tell me I don’t have enough or I paid too much and gives me a couple bills back

So from then on I never carried cash on me ever.
I have every penny in my card. It’s just easier for me to not deal with bills and coins all over the place or else I get really overwhelmed with the junk in my purse and I don’t like dumping everything to look inside for a dollar bill

I do tzedaka on that little can thing by shabbos candlelighting
Hubs said it’s okay that way bh

amother

Aqua

Fri, May 13 2022, 8:46 am

amother [ Mintcream ] wrote:

how are her actions in any way justifiable
this website is so wacky sometimes I cant handle it

Assume that there's more to the story than meets the eye. It's our chiyuv to be dan l'kaf zchus.

amother

Green

Fri, May 13 2022, 8:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So I’m still curious.

How would you know which tzedaka collectors are non jews? If they are dressed like us Jews. What gives them away?

It shouldn't matter this much. If a person begs and you feel inclined to give, their religion or religious status shouldn't matter.

twizzlers1

Fri, May 13 2022, 9:14 am

I just came through everything so maybe I miss something but it just so interesting how many perspectives there are. I listen to Reb Esther Baila Schwartz and just this week she was talking about giving and how it takes so little just to make someone stay. How to stop and say hello and give them a smile. She even said that for people that don't have cash then make a trip to the bank once a month and take out a bunch of dollars. Obviously she's assuming only for person can afford to give a dollar a happily. I live in Israel and even one shekel is an acceptable amount to give to someone who you don't know. So maybe even in America less will be considered kind enough. Obviously whatever you give is nice. But she said it's not just about the giver that's getting it's about you to have a giving attitude. I have been listening to her for years and she has changed my life about so many things. Thanks to her I always try to say hello to the cashier and I almost try to find something to give them a compliment about like a pair of earrings. I don't know that I'm compliment a man. but these little things can really make a difference in someone's day. Obviously you can't give them that's okay but if your person that can afford to I think even if they are not Jewish you make a kiddush Hashem. I would never give a crazy amount to someone on the street because I don't know if you're using it for drugs or alcohol but I figure for my little bit I'm giving them it doesn't make a difference and I know that at least I acted in a way to make me feel good that I treated someone with respect.

amother

Aqua

Fri, May 13 2022, 9:30 am

twizzlers1 wrote:

You're right. But unfortunately in BP, single dollars or loose change are often thrown back at your face along with a slew of curses.
If people behave like this towards collectors, it's probably because they had bad experience with street collectors. Normal collectors/fundraisers that really need the money, generally don't stand on street corners. It's the crazies that don't want to be helped, or non jews.

soapsuds

Fri, May 13 2022, 10:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So I’m still curious.

How would you know which tzedaka collectors are non jews? If they are dressed like us Jews. What gives them away?

They often get the nuances wrong. I recently saw a Hispanic looking man with a child in Williamsburg. Ok, they could be Sephardi, or maybe Gehrig, right? In general, when they schlep a child along, that already makes me skeptical - like they’re trying to play our feelings too hard. The child was wearing a regular t-shirt and pants, not the type that your typical Williamsburg child would wear, but other Jewish kids would - so far so good. He had a crew cut, really short on the sides, longer on top. Again, definitely not chasidish, but could be Jewish. But what gave it away, was the fact that he plunked a large black velvet 6-slice kappel on this kid’s head.

It was actually quite funny. It was screaming so loudly Look at me! I’m trying to look as Jewish as I can. I almost wanted tell him, you’re doing it wrong, here’s what you can wear to make your costume look more realistic and believable. Of course I didn’t say anything. Let everyone see who he really is and make their own decision on whether or not to give him money.

Last edited by soapsuds on Fri, May 13 2022, 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Violet

Fri, May 13 2022, 10:37 am

We all have our failings. Our job is to look internally and grow from them. Not go around pointing out the faults of others. Op when you see things like this ask yourself, what am I doing to raise my own children to be kinder and more accepting towards others?

Not_in_my_town

Fri, May 13 2022, 10:46 am

Can we divide this up into two issues?

1. There are scammers in BP, as well as some not healthy people. You don't have to give if you feel uncomfortable. That's not an aveirah.

2. Shaming someone or attacking verbally is not okay, no matter what you feel about them.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

amother

Lily

Fri, May 13 2022, 1:09 pm

If it’s the guy I’m thinking about, there’s a woman collector that he constantly fights with.

amother

Topaz

Fri, May 13 2022, 1:16 pm

Rudeness isn’t right but you shouldn’t give to panhandlers.

skyeblue

Fri, May 13 2022, 1:38 pm

Not_in_my_town wrote:

Are you that lady?

Surprised

Yes, there are scammers but that doesn't justify being nasty.

And as for craziness, that's never, ever an excuse to be mean. People are blessed with varying levels of mental and emotional faculties. Be thankful that you are operating with a full deck. Show those with less a little caring, please.

And, as a BT who's lived in BP, Willy and Monsey, I can tell you that when I first came into the community, I was under the impression that Yidden are always perfectly well behaved, I mean -- Yidden have the TORAH! How can they NOT be well behaved.

But you know what they say, "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews."

Humans are humans, always struggling to grow despite forces that pull us down.

Even though the Torah is perfect, we aren't. And that can be a harsh reality to accept.

I can only speak as a BT, but I see the same thing with my daughter who is FFB.

When someone isn't behaving the way we imagine a Jew should behave, it can be shocking and painful for those of us who have a strong sense of responsibility to do what a Jew has to do -- not that us idealists are perfect ourselves.

Aqua's point about saying "I shouldn't be surprised" still stands. That phrase seems to extend the judgement past this rude lady and onto additional people. While it's possible OP was referring to society as a whole, it certainly could sound like lashon hara or avak lashon hara. If would be appropriate to amend the title so as to remove the possibility of this interpretation.

Last edited by skyeblue on Fri, May 13 2022, 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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