The imperfect chessed thread. The other side off the story

keym

Wed, May 18 2022, 9:35 am

amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:

Honestly, I wouldn’t appreciate being sent a supper of just baked chicken legs and potatoes.

There's a way to do it generously without making the giver rundown.
I do one pan chicken and rice. Easy. Rice, water, chicken, spices, bake. I like to make soup. Either broccoli/cauliflower, zucchini, or vegetable. But I send pureed soups. I can peel and chop large pieces and simmer and then immersion blender. All those soups take 5 minutes to prepare, 2 hours to simmer and are yummy.
I'll also send roasted vegetables like string beans or broccoli.
Sometimes also fresh fruit.
A supper of soup, chicken and rice, roasted broccoli and cut up cantaloupe is really special, nice, bakavodik and takes me 15 minutes to prepare and 2 hours to cook unsupervised.

The problem is when we do "extra" Chessed that the beneficiary didn't ask for and then get upset that they don't appreciate it.

If I ask you to bring my teenager home and drop him off 3 blocks away and you choose to drive him to the door and get stuck behind the garbage truck on my block and it took you 3 times as long, don't make me feel guilty or expect an apology. I didn't ask you to come down my block.

amother

Eggshell

Wed, May 18 2022, 9:39 am

Rubies wrote:

We're all human and make mistakes. Yet, the ideal should be to do a chessed fully.

I'm having a hard time understanding how the car and food incident is different than showing up to visit a sick person, in a way that makes them uncomfortable. Or to host people in your home, but the kids are inappropriately using their bedroom, or to be a kallah teacher but omit necessary information.

Sometimes the end does not justify the means.

the examples you gave are very different than delivering food and asking them to come downstairs. The examples you gave are not ok, asking for someone to come to the door because there's no parking and you just worked hard to make them food, is fine. Gratitude!

amother

NeonYellow

Wed, May 18 2022, 9:49 am

amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:

Honestly, I wouldn’t appreciate being sent a supper of just baked chicken legs and potatoes.

I don’t get this attitude. I just had a baby and anything that someone could do for me so I don’t have to do it myself is a huge help.

People need to realize that just because you make a 3 course meal for your family every night, doesn’t mean everyone else does. If you’ll be disappointed with this normal type of meal then please do not accept offers or start a meal train.

And if chicken and potatoes is a standard meal in your home and having someone else make it for you isn't good enough, you need to check yourself.

GLUE

Wed, May 18 2022, 9:56 am

Yes after I give birth I could make chicken and or pasta by myself. But, I have no brains after I give birth and I really don't think about supper until after the last minute, plus I have to have that stuff in my house.

Once someone gave me a few packages of cold cuts a loaf of bread and some pickles. It was very good because when my kids wanted supper I said cold cut sandwiches.

Some people have a very low bar on supper.

amother

Jetblack

Wed, May 18 2022, 9:58 am

Rubies wrote:

When I had my stillbirth everyone tried to help. They sent me chocolates I didn't like and made meals I didn't like or need (I had stocked my freezer with meals before the birth) and drove in to visit me without asking. And I hated it all, very few actually did the right thing. But I still appreciated it because I knew that in their way they were showing that they care. Even though to me coming to visit a woman without any warning is not okay. But to them it was caring and I admire them for that.

amother

Yolk

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:02 am

I recently got a therapist and was discussing this very topic.

I started off by being upset that the receiver, who had multiple family members help and move in, needed me to make them all a meal.

I then said that I was mad at myself for not making them a good enough meal.

My not Jewish therapist talked back at me, and made me realize:

1) people are allowed to ask for things. That is a good thing, when we are vulnerable and relay our needs to others. It’s how the human race can survive. It’s not a mean or bad thing, and we need to have more empathy for others. You don’t have to hate on people for asking because you can say no.

Getting mad is our defense mechanism when we don’t have enough empathy.

2) saying no when we honestly can’t do it is not a mean or bad thing. It doesn’t mean we don’t have enough chesed in us. It’s having empathy for ourselves.

Feeling mad at ourselves is also a lack of empathy.

3) being imperfect is a part of life. Sometimes we are the chicken legs and potatoes kind of people (which I think is fine, btw), and we should be considerate to ourselves.

The problem is that we are all force fed a million stories in school and at shiurim about what is the “perfect” chesed. Judaism is about reaching for perfection. But it’s a journey, and it’s not about being there instantly. If only we were allowed to hear the million ways these same people had started off and their imperfections, I think we would be kinder to ourselves.

I admit I’m still working on all this but it was so enlightening to hear.

out-of-towner

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:04 am

I'm not a Hungarian Balabusta. Not by any means. Read my post history, I'm actually one of the more simple people. I can cook and bake but my house is a disaster and I'm super disorganized. But I happen to be a SAHM by force for now, and I partially homeschool one of my kids and have a toddler around full time. When I offer to make a Kimpeturin meal I try to send a full rounded meal. Recently I sent a large family KAH sesame style chicken, rice, cut up veggies, watermelon, and oatmeal bars. I also made sure to include all plastic ware, including cups and napkins. The Kimpeturin later called me *which BTW I totally don't expect recognition, and thanked me for everything, especially for including the plastic ware. She said to me "I told my kids that THIS is an example of how to do Chessed." I told her that it was seriously my pleasure to do so.
So no, it's not expected to go those extra miles, but it is appreciated.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:08 am

amother [ Eggshell ] wrote:

But what if she really can’t? What if she can’t put the baby down? Or what if she’s having a hard time getting around? Or what if she can’t maneuver holding all the food without it causing her pain? As someone said in one of the other threads, taking a second person isn’t such a bad idea, assuming someone is around.

amother

Ebony

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:12 am

Didn’t read the whole thread, but OP, this one was not an imperfect chesed. It’s not like you volunteered and then didn’t go all the way. In this case, you were amazing to take the kid at all. I had someone try to send me her kids during labor without warning too. I don’t get these people at all. And it was during covid lockdown.
You did great.

watergirl

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:16 am

out-of-towner wrote:

This is actually the entire point of this thread.

There are MANY ways to do chessed. You can send the full four course meal. You can also send chicken and potatos. That women taught her children with that comment that if you can't do the full four course meal, it's not doing chessed. It means the women who went out of her way to shop, cook, and deliver chicken, rice, and roasted vegetables the following night and did not send paper plates and cookies is doing a lesser chessed. It is teaching the children that the women who works a full time job and has no room for an extra freezer to store ready to go meals, but who makes the time to shop, cook, and deliver a simple and filling meal, yet can not go to the lengths you did, is not doing the chessed.

The women with endless time to make huge meals, and the women with no extra time who sends a simple meal - they both did an ideal chessed to the level they can. Neither is better, and it's not fair to teach your children what she did.

amother

Chambray

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:29 am

amother [ Yarrow ] wrote:

I never send chicken bottoms cause I feel the mom can do that herself.

Soup- grating veggies etc
Chicken cutlet coating and frying
Cubed potatoes in the oven
Stir fry with added veggies
Dessert some sort of compote or I bake something

I always send more to be safe. And I try and send by 5ish if there are little kids so need to start at 2

The problem is when we turn it into such a project the mother loses out.

So it’s like I cant send a simple meal. It has to be complex. But I have no time for complex. So I won’t send.

It’s so backwards

I know of a young community were almost no one had local family or were Baali teshuva, so really on their own. It became a pain to send meals bec it had to be so elaborate.
The rav made a rule. Protein. Starch. Vegetable. No dessert. If you want to send soup then just soup and protein. Nothing else.
After that ppl sent more bec the pressure was off. And ppl did appreciate getting the simple meals.

watergirl

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:35 am

amother [ Chambray ] wrote:

You summed it up better than I could have. This is a great post. And that rav is spot on.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:38 am

amother [ Chambray ] wrote:

I don’t get meals after I have a baby, but if I did I would want something simple. No, not every new mother is able to throw chicken and rice and potatoes into the oven. Some can’t do it physically, some can’t do it mentally….
Soup doesn’t have to be hand shredded. Schnitzel doesn’t have to be dredged, just rub it with egg or oil or Mayo, then toss in a bag with crumbs.
People make themselves crazy to make these elaborate meals, and then blame society for pressuring them to make such meals. So I have a question for all those people. Did you ask the new moms? Did you ask them if they prefer fancy or more simple meals? Did you ask them what THEY want, what their kids want, what would be easier for THEM?

yiddishmom

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:46 am

Oh my!

What's with all the "what if she can't come down because of this, that, and who knows what".

Of course some women won't be able to walk down the stairs shoetly after giving birth, but many women can!

Therefore, I think it's totally OK for the mom who made the food to call and ask if the PP mom can come down because it's tough to find parking.

PP could say, "I really appreciate your help. I can't make it down right now."

And then together they can brainstorm another plan.

1) Chessed mom can give it an extra few minutes to try to find parking.

2) perhaps a neighbor can come down to get it?

3) Perhaps chesed mom can double park and drop off the food box in the main entrance and then the husband can bring it up when he comes home a little later.

4) if PP mom can come down, but not take up the box, maybe she can come down to be in the car while chesed mom runs up with the food.

It's definitely ok to ask PP mom if she can come down, and PP mom can communicate if not. There are so many options to make this work! Seriously.

Rubies

Wed, May 18 2022, 10:48 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

That doesn't negate the point in making.
Hugs though.

When there are clear expectations the chessed should fulfill them, when there aren't - it's hopefully the thought that counts.

Heyaaa

Wed, May 18 2022, 11:01 am

watergirl wrote:

What you wrote is not basic, it's patchke. What I wrote (baked chicken with simple spices and roasted potatos) is basic, wholesome, healthy, and delicious. If you would make things that can just be thrown in a pan in the oven, and if you must send soup, keep frozen soup at the ready to just heat up and send hot, you would no longer be spending hours in the kitchen.

Yes, the mom can do chicken (dark or white meat) in the oven by herself. No, she does not have to if someone else will for her. And we know from this site, many women feel they are not up to the 8 minutes it takes to do the basic I do for them when they are right after birth.

ETA - my point, I actually have a few points, is that you said you stopped making these hours long prep meals because you realized (or assumed) no one appreciated it. Truthfully, no, no one appreciates you slaving away for them for hours. It is TRULY not necessary. The point is to provide a hot nourishing meal for a new mom who can't or should not have to do it on her own for a week or two. No one can eat these massive meals every night. Kids are used to their mothers cooking and honestly, it's best in my opinion to send simple and easy for that reason. There is TRULY no reason to make all of that, spend all of that time and money, to send that kind of a meal. Maybe if you are making an entire shabbos dinner... but for a weeknight? No.

Eta again - if someone feels they do need even more, they should be calling the local take out and place an order to round out the meal as they want it to be.

I would appreciate the chicken legs and potatoes but I would appreciate the schnitzel, soup, compote, and stir fry a lot more.