Home

Some reasons why I'm not sending to public school
1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 12:35 am
In another thread Amother said that maybe in Lakewood to keep the tuition down, just send to public school for the younger grades. My first reaction was What were you thinking then I remember what my father always says "If you have to ask what someone is thinking you are giving them to much credit that they were thinking".

Ether you come from a community that is is normal, if that is the case, I glad it works for you and I wish you lots of Yiddish nachas from your kids. Or you were not thinking.

Lets forget about the fact that it is now a law to teach kindergarten kids about Gender Identity in NJ, and the classes would be mixed gender. Her is some of the reasons that I can think of just now.

I want my son to start the day off davening,I want my son to go to a school that the teachers want the boys to were tzitzes.
They can learn Hebrew in public school, but only as a langue not as a holy tongue.
I want him to learn Chumash in the morning when he is rested a refreshed not after 6 hours of school.
I want him to be in a place that emphasizes on Middous. Were the hallways has pictures of Gedolem. Were the bulletin boards display are about Yom Tov.
I want him to come home telling me about the Parsha, some thing that can not be taught in Public school. Right now he is telling me all about Shavous, I don't want him telling me about Shavous the same way he would talk about Halloween or Valentines day.

In public School would he learn that A is for Aficomen and B for Bisomin, would he make a Vase for Shobbos flowers for V(I mean would he come home to say it's for Shobbos flowers not just a vase)
Right now they are growing butterflies in school and learning about the Great Butterfly migration. It takes about 5 generation's to make the round trip from Mexico to Canada and back. Would his teacher in public school talk about how Hashem tells the butterflies born in the spring to fly north and the ones born in the fall to fly south?

Who is going to remind him to wash before lunch and Bench after lunch?

That's all that I can think of right now, these are some of the reasons why sending our pure children to public school is a bad idea.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 12:41 am
Excellent post!

In early 1900s, frum parents sent kids to public school and Talmud Torah in afternoon.

Most of the kids became mechallel shobbos, r"l.

Yeshivas and BYs are essential.
Back to top

Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 12:44 am
In Israel, yeshivas are public schools. Maybe that poster was from Israel.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 12:47 am
Rappel wrote:
In Israel, yeshivas are public schools. Maybe that poster was from Israel.


No, poster was referring to American Public Schools.

To save tuition, some have suggested sending to public school with
Talmud Torah after school - at least in the younger grades.

Others have said we should threaten to register our kids in public school to
get government to agree to give some $ to yeshivas.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 1:05 am
I didn't see the discussion in the original thread, but perhaps the poster was in a dire financial situation and was only considering this as a very last resort.

Or maybe she thought that since such a high percentage of Lakewood kids are frum Jews, if everybody sent to public schools, the atmosphere in the class would not be as detrimental as you described.
Back to top

amother




Razzmatazz
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 1:23 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Excellent post!

In early 1900s, frum parents sent kids to public school and Talmud Torah in afternoon.

Most of the kids became mechallel shobbos, r"l.

Yeshivas and BYs are essential.

What a stupid comment. My mother and all her cohorts went to public school. They are all still frum and SS.
I am not advocating public school. I was very privilege to go to day school, as are my children, but you comment is made up. Feel free to show me a pew report and prove me wrong.
Back to top

amother




Lightyellow
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 1:38 am
amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:
What a stupid comment. My mother and all her cohorts went to public school. They are all still frum and SS.
I am not advocating public school. I was very privilege to go to day school, as are my children, but you comment is made up. Feel free to show me a pew report and prove me wrong.


Could you rephrase that?

BestBubby I really don't agree with you. My mother etc... I'd love to see a pew report proving what you're saying.
Back to top

amother




NeonPink
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 1:53 am
Yeshivas in Israel are very definitely NOT public schools.
Israeli public school are like American ones in every way except the language and maybe haircuts/clothing.

Secondly, even if people used to send to public schools, today's schools and secular environment is nothing like that of two or three generations ago. There is much more hostility to religion, younger teachers are mostly products of a very liberal education and what kids do/know/talk about, even at young ages is not something you would want your kids exposed to, even in the younger grades.

And if you are not planning on transitioning eventually to a yeshiva framework, your kids will be in coed classes, forming relationships with non-jews and picking up ideas antiethical to your lifestyle and home.
If you do plan on transitioning, your kids will have a hard time with the huge difference in school styles, making friends in a very different social setting and picking up religious or social nuances that most kids got through osmosis in the first few years of school. They may also be bullied as being different or branded someone to be wary of (by kids/parents/teacher) due the fact that they went to public school.

The first few years are also the most formative. I know people who became religious later in life because the first few years of school they were sent to chabad institutions. These years really shape your beliefs and thought processes. IMHO, that's worth paying for.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 2:28 am
amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:
What a stupid comment. My mother and all her cohorts went to public school. They are all still frum and SS.
I am not advocating public school. I was very privilege to go to day school, as are my children, but you comment is made up. Feel free to show me a pew report and prove me wrong.



Only 10% of American Jews are Orthodox, but nearly all are descendants of immigrants
who were religious in Europe.

The children of Jewish immigrants went to public school, and rapidly assimilated into the American Culture.
Back to top

amother




Tangerine
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 2:32 am
I will start off my saying I don’t recommend sending kids to public schools but technically if a few families were there you can have a few frum kids in every class .
That said I had a child in public school for preschool due to needing services. My child did not need to be a a special needs class or inclusion. She was in a regular Ed class in a regular Ed public school and able to get the help needed.
My child was the only Jew in the class with an amazing teacher who was super respectful of our religion and not leaving anyone out . My child never asked to celebrate holidays bec she would say it not my holiday also know how to make sure food was kosher at a young age and always asked and checked never took a event for granted and would always ask first of it was kosher.
The love for being a Jew grew without being on a Jewish environment, it still amazes me we moved her the year before 1st and really is amazing child with a big love for Hashem and mitzvahs . I am not looking to brag just saying sometimes you environment can influence you but sometimes it makes you stronger.
Reality is we pay for public school with our property tax and then killing ourselves to pay tuition I have other kids since and did not put them in public school but a bit in my head was like why not for preschool.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 2:38 am
Razamataz, here is excerpt on Brandeis University Study on how Day School Graduates
maintain Orthodox Observance, while those who did not go to religious schools rapidly
assimilate:


according to the 2006-2007 Brandeis University study, “The Impact of Day School: A Comparative Analysis of Jewish College Students.” That report surveyed 3300 Jewish college students who are alumni of day schools and found that day school students enter college more likely to be involved in Jewish campus life than those who did not. They are more likely to enroll in Jewish classes, join Jewish clubs on campus and maintain holiday observance in the face of intense social pressure. They also express a stronger sense of civic responsibility, a greater commitment to the Jewish community, and become far more likely to pursue Jewish communal careers.

While engagement among non-day school alumni tends to wane as they become adults, the day school student actually stays committed, according to the 1998 Charles Shahar study, “The Jewish High School Experience”; that report showed that graduates of Jewish high schools were significantly more likely to attend synagogue and observe Jewish rituals, more inclined to donate to Jewish causes and volunteer for Jewish organizations, and more inclined to consider moving to Israel.

And every study over the past 20 years shows that day school alumni marry Jews at a significantly rate than do their non-day school peers: upwards of 80 percent of adults with six or more years of day school and more than 90 percent who attended day school for seven to 12 years are in-married.
Back to top

nylon




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 2:59 am
1) You can't make that arbitrary separation between yeshiva and public school in Israel. What about mamad schools? Not to mention there are also semi-private schools, etc.

2) I think it's very tricky to make the comparison between decades ago and today because so many things have changed, the pressures on family have changed, many families did not have a strong Torah foundation but were observant out of tradition only, and so on.

3) The problem with using day school as the measure is that day school also acts as a proxy for home observance and involvement so it is not easy to separate and say how much is due to school specifically. You would need to separate the groups by level of home involvement and actually have a proper group of frum kids in public school, which you would find very difficult to get. (I don't think special education kids are a proper control group.) Non-frum families who send to Jewish school still care enough to do that.

4) They absolutely would teach all that about monarch butterflies in school... except about Hashem, which they are not allowed to do.

Now--I am not saying that you should send to public school. But we should be choosing Jewish schools for positive reasons (because we want our children to learn Torah) and not out of fear.
Back to top

amother




Razzmatazz
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 3:11 am
Bubby, In this study nobody bothered to factor what type of a home they came from or how important Judaism was to them/the role it played in their life, prior to staring college. Nobody bothered to adjust for any different impacting factors. Ie., you have neglected to factor in whether they were raised in a religious home. Just because someone’s grandparents were religious in the shtetl in the old country doesn’t mean that they brought religion with them on the boat when they started their new life.
You cannot possibly compare the background of someone who goes to public school and Talmud Torah and has frum parents who have a kosher home, are actively involved in mitzvot, take them to shul every Shabbos… with someone who goes to synagogue on the high holidays and is culturally but not religiously Jewish.

Your Brandis study does not actually say anything.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 3:15 am
nylon wrote:
3) The problem with using day school as the measure is that day school also acts as a proxy for home observance and involvement so it is not easy to separate and say how much is due to school specifically. You would need to separate the groups by level of home involvement and actually have a proper group of frum kids in public school, which you would find very difficult to get. (I don't think special education kids are a proper control group.) Non-frum families who send to Jewish school still care enough to do that.

This. Do we have data on frum families who send to public schools vs dayschools?

I know a handful of frum kids who attended secular public school in Israel because of specific academic needs. Kids who are strong in their emunah and who come from frum families who actively reinforce religious practice at home come out fine; those who come from families who are less vigilant about religious observance and the centrality of mitzvot and Torah, families who are nominally Orthodox but not actively engaged in religion, tend to abandon observance.


Last edited by DrMom on Mon, May 23 2022, 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

amother




Razzmatazz
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 3:18 am
Thank you DrMom for being much more articulate than I am at 3:15 am.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 3:30 am
amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:
Thank you DrMom for being much more articulate than I am at 3:15 am.

3:15 AM!? I am impressed that you were able to string a sentence together at all.

FWIW, I thought your post made sense. Smile
Back to top

amother




Gladiolus
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 6:48 am
Why do you think the day school system started? It was because public school plus supplementing at home/Hebrew school was NOT working, and no, it wasn't because the families were lax or whatever, it was a serious problem. Yes, some people stayed frum, many more didn't. The people you know who did are an example of survivors bias.

Anyway, I think the OP nailed it. I'd also add, there is A LOT of foundational stuff that happens in the early years you don't even realize. There's a boy in my oldest son's class whose parents thought they could do K-1 in public school and then switch over. And they taught him Alef beis etc at home. The boy is very behind now, never really caught up. And no, he doesn't have learning disabilities. He just never got the same foundation in Hebrew. When the other boys were starting mishna, he was still cracking his teeth on basic chumash, no rashi. When they moved on to gemara, he still wasn't quite ready to even start mishna. It's a constant game of catch up.
Back to top

amother




Puce
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 6:55 am
amother [ Razzmatazz ] wrote:
What a stupid comment. My mother and all her cohorts went to public school. They are all still frum and SS.
I am not advocating public school. I was very privilege to go to day school, as are my children, but you comment is made up. Feel free to show me a pew report and prove me wrong.

Your mother was born in the early 1900's? Very impressive. May I ask how old she is?
Back to top

imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 7:04 am
I had to put DS in public preschool to get services, and switched him over for kindergarten.

Some of the things that were challenging were on GlUE's list. Others included:

Being uncomfortable in yarmulke and tzitzis, since nobody else had them

Most birthday parties and other social events were on Shabbos.

Class parties and the like always involved bringing our own food, and sometimes, the nonkosher alternative looked tastier.

Halloween, "non-denominational" Xmas activities, valentines, etc.

Kids talking about things we don't do.

It was totally worth it to me to pull DS out daily in kindergarten to get him services during lunchtimes, despite the logistical and financial challenges that entailed.
Back to top

amother




Lightpink
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 7:06 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
Your mother was born in the early 1900's? Very impressive. May I ask how old she is?

My mother went to public school in the 1950s/60s. Her family was a handful of Orthodox families in a very small town with not enough for a day school. It had an Orthodox shul and mikvah and that was about it. The boys from the more frum families stayed till they were bar mitzvah then went away to yeshiva. The girls continued thru high school. My mother had 1 frum friend her age, the rest were non Jewish. I won't say the name of the town because it would be very identifying. There is almost no Jewish presence there anymore as eventually by the late 80s everyone had left. But let me say, the children and grandchildren as well as great grandchildren of those public school kids are living very frum lives in places such as Lakewood and even Bnai Brak as well as plenty of JPF. There are several well known peope who came from there that you'd probably be surprised to hear went to that public school.
I'm not saying this is a realistic model for nowadays. Just saying that yes, it did happen and not so long ago, either.
Back to top
1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 5 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Related Topics Replies Last Post
School start date
by amother
5 Today at 3:56 pm View last post
Specialized school to try to save my child?
by LALA2
9 Today at 11:18 am View last post
What’s the point of high school (girls)
by amother
193 Today at 10:31 am View last post
Reasons youre happy you didnt get a cheap kitchen?
by amother
42 Yesterday at 12:32 am View last post
Nursing school
by amother
8 Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:17 pm View last post