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Some reasons why I'm not sending to public school
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 9:55 pm
amother [ Lightpink ] wrote:
Yes. I agree.
Believe it or not, that's how/why Agudath Israel of America was started, too. All young men who started the American chapter, in the 1920s, I think. If you've seen photos, it's a small group of young modern looking men (for the time that is) wearing stylish clothing and clean-shaven.


That could also describe top bochrim in Slabodka.
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amother




Hydrangea
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 10:30 pm
amother [ Lightpink ] wrote:
Sure. But Conservative Judaism wasn't really a big option around the turn of the century yet.

RE: Young Israel, as I recall from reading Lieutenant Birnbaum, Young Israel really got going in the 1920s-early 30s. It also was a way for younger religious Jews to feel more included in shul services as the more religious ones were run as a tight ship by the older members and young boys/men were not allowed much say or participation--started to attract a younger crowd who were otherwise feeling like an unnecessary appendage in the shuls of their fathers. The English drashos were definitely a way to attract that younger (dare I say it, public school educated yet still religious) crowd.


Interesting background on the history of YI as it would describe many of the generation who were starting families in the 1920's. I am most familiar with the YI on CIA and Avenue Helen

That generation of young men had affinity groups in which they called themselves Young Men - e.g. the X Young Men's Association (the X being the city of their origins).

I once mentioned that it was an example of how much more stringent Orthodox practice has become since the people who attended were Orthodox but the women - for example - didn't go to extreme measures of tzunias as they wore short sleeves, wore dresses that showed their collarbones but not generally their cleavage and showed their knees to the extent that was the fashion or if they were sitting. Also most of them didn't wear wigs but hats. I am NOT looking upon them as inferior or lesser but just an observation of what was considered to be very respectable for Orthodox women of that generation. They didn't wear pants but women from that generation mostly didn't wear pants anyway.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 10:42 pm
amother [ Birch ] wrote:
It’s hard to believe frum people would think to send kids to ps while living in a frum community
I’m on shlichus in a third world country with my kids in online school and on my head all day and I’d consider public school as the biggest sin I could do to my kids
If I found it too hard to have my kids at home I’d faster leave my shlichus and community rather than put my kids up on the altar
So sad


It’s very hard. The people I know who send to public school have to work full time. Their tuition bill is $60k and up. For some people it’s a choice whether to eat or not. And no, nobody is rushing to pay their tuition bill.

Your job is to be at home. You make money doing it. And you’re also able to manage your children on zoom while doing it.

I don’t know any frum people that are choosing between sending to frum schools or going on a mega vacation and buying mansions. You act like there’s always a choice.

In my town, tuition for the frum schools are now nearing the $20,000 mark, and I haven’t even touched the yeshiva tuition bill.
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amother




Lightgreen
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 10:56 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
It’s very hard. The people I know who send to public school have to work full time. Their tuition bill is $60k and up. For some people it’s a choice whether to eat or not. And no, nobody is rushing to pay their tuition bill.

Your job is to be at home. You make money doing it. And you’re also able to manage your children on zoom while doing it.

I don’t know any frum people that are choosing between sending to frum schools or going on a mega vacation and buying mansions. You act like there’s always a choice.

In my town, tuition for the frum schools are now nearing the $20,000 mark, and I haven’t even touched the yeshiva tuition bill.


I don't know you and I don't know where you live so please don't see this as an attack on you personally, that's entirely not my intention.

The above is infuriating. If a frum community is charging an unrealistic tuition with no wiggle room to the point that parents are "forced" to send to public schools, the community members need to take matters into their own hands. The cornerstone of Jewish continuity is high quality Chinuch. You think the Jewish parents in the times of Chanukah were comfortable sending their young kids into the caves to learn and pretend to be playing when soldiers would find them? Of course not! But we have a responsibility to provide our children with a Torah true Chinuch in every single sense of the word.

If communities like you are describing are actually functioning the way you have written then parents in the community need to either move or be the change they want to see. It's unacceptable for there to be a situation where a parent is seeing public school as a viable alternative to a Torah Chinuch especially if it's due to finances.

Of course the classic responses are things like "not everyone is capable of opening a school" etc etc. But everyone is capable of making some change, and if you are living somewhere where this is the reality, you have a responsibility to create the change.
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GLUE




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 10:58 pm
Thank you all that responded,

My post was not if I send to public school my kid won't be Frum, for that I must Daven and Daven and Daven some more, that my children will stay Frum no matter what type of school I send to.

My post was I want my son to be in an environment were being Frum is in the atmosphere were even when you are learning the ABC or about butterflies, Hashem is mention. Were Mitzvos are encouraged, that was what I was trying to say.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 11:05 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
It’s very hard. The people I know who send to public school have to work full time. Their tuition bill is $60k and up. For some people it’s a choice whether to eat or not. And no, nobody is rushing to pay their tuition bill.

Your job is to be at home. You make money doing it. And you’re also able to manage your children on zoom while doing it.

I don’t know any frum people that are choosing between sending to frum schools or going on a mega vacation and buying mansions. You act like there’s always a choice.

In my town, tuition for the frum schools are now nearing the $20,000 mark, and I haven’t even touched the yeshiva tuition bill.


I would move before I sent a Jewish child to public school. It is Pikuach Nefesh.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 11:06 pm
amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:
I don't know you and I don't know where you live so please don't see this as an attack on you personally, that's entirely not my intention.

The above is infuriating. If a frum community is charging an unrealistic tuition with no wiggle room to the point that parents are "forced" to send to public schools, the community members need to take matters into their own hands. The cornerstone of Jewish continuity is high quality Chinuch. You think the Jewish parents in the times of Chanukah were comfortable sending their young kids into the caves to learn and pretend to be playing when soldiers would find them? Of course not! But we have a responsibility to provide our children with a Torah true Chinuch in every single sense of the word.

If communities like you are describing are actually functioning the way you have written then parents in the community need to either move or be the change they want to see. It's unacceptable for there to be a situation where a parent is seeing public school as a viable alternative to a Torah Chinuch especially if it's due to finances.

Of course the classic responses are things like "not everyone is capable of opening a school" etc etc. But everyone is capable of making some change, and if you are living somewhere where this is the reality, you have a responsibility to create the change.


I don’t disagree with you other than the part where you said it was “unrealistic tuition”. New York and Lakewood get many things from the government. Other schools have to do it themselves. Our state also requires insurance offerings. Water and gas and electricity are very expensive. And then you have property taxes, paying Rabbaim a living wage, and the expenses add up.

A good measure is to see how much it costs in the state to educate a child in public school. If they’re the same as your tuition bill, Or in the ballpark, it’s not “unreasonable.”

I agree tuition is out of control. But I am a small person and I don’t really understand how it is I’m supposed to convince all the rich people to pay for everything when the schools themselves have tons of fundraisers targeting those same rich people.

Literally ideas have been floated to re-create the Talmud Torah system of yesteryear. It’s not because we all adore public school, it’s because we are out of options.
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amother




Lightgreen
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 11:11 pm
imorethanamother wrote:
I don’t disagree with you other than the part where you said it was “unrealistic tuition”. New York and Lakewood get many things from the government. Other schools have to do it themselves. Our state also requires insurance offerings. Water and gas and electricity are very expensive. And then you have property taxes, paying Rabbaim a living wage, and the expenses add up.

A good measure is to see how much it costs in the state to educate a child in public school. If they’re the same as your tuition bill, Or in the ballpark, it’s not “unreasonable.”

I agree tuition is out of control. But I am a small person and I don’t really understand how it is I’m supposed to convince all the rich people to pay for everything when the schools themselves have tons of fundraisers targeting those same rich people.

Literally ideas have been floated to re-create the Talmud Torah system of yesteryear. It’s not because we all adore public school, it’s because we are out of options.


By unrealistic I meant for the parents.

If the school's board of directors is not able to come up with sufficient funding to ensure that every child in the community stays in a frum school, then it is their responsibility to solicit outside help whether it is grant writers, parents in the community who can donate time to save the school money in specific areas, a committee of financial advisors to help the school balance the finances etc. There are options, they are not easy and they are not simple, but putting a child into public school because of money is not considered a viable option. It's just not.

No one is saying it's easy, I'm not at all minimizing the enormity of managing the budget of a frum school especially out of town, but Chinuch is worth it.
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, May 23 2022, 11:43 pm
amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:
By unrealistic I meant for the parents.

If the school's board of directors is not able to come up with sufficient funding to ensure that every child in the community stays in a frum school, then it is their responsibility to solicit outside help whether it is grant writers, parents in the community who can donate time to save the school money in specific areas, a committee of financial advisors to help the school balance the finances etc. There are options, they are not easy and they are not simple, but putting a child into public school because of money is not considered a viable option. It's just not.

No one is saying it's easy, I'm not at all minimizing the enormity of managing the budget of a frum school especially out of town, but Chinuch is worth it.


Okay. Let’s say the school is doing that. So that pays for the bottom 10% that can pay nothing, and you’re saving a couple thousand dollars. That’s not real money. It means that other people have to pay more to help pay for salaries. Because you can’t get that from saving money, you get that from getting money. Grants can’t pay salaries.

So now you have about 50% struggling to pay. Maybe 10% that can afford all this and loads more.

Now factor in a child who has problems reading. One who has dyslexia. One who is on the spectrum. One who can’t keep up with Gemara. One who can’t do math. I mean, read through that thread. People are being asked to pay tuition AND ALSO a ton of extra tutors.

Who’s paying for that? Public school handles a lot of these learning disabilities. Our schools can’t manage them. They’re not special needs. They’re regular kids who aren’t smack in the middle of academic ability - the only type of kid our overpacked schools can really handle.

Again, I don’t know any frum families that say I’ll send to public school so I can save lots of money that I could have easily afforded!
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