Tuition raised 2k per child to cover teacher’s bloated salar

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 25 2022, 10:54 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

I got the same 2k increase letter today. So many of us send to the same school! It does seem unfair that we just pledged monthly donations to the school (based on our budget) and now they are telling us that tuition is being increased so much. I gave more than 2k in extra donations this year. Let them use that money towards my tuition next year.

2k multiplied by the amount of students in the class equals a minimum of a 40K raise for the teachers. 20K for the morning teacher and 20k for the afternoon teacher. Is that really how much each teacher is being raised? Something doesn't add up here.

amother

Hunter

Wed, May 25 2022, 10:56 am

amother [ Wallflower ] wrote:

Because tuition is a crippling expense! Other than mortgage, what other expense takes such a drastic toll on your income? At least when you sign up for a mortgage, your expense is a static one and you work it into your budget. But with tuition being frequently changed up on you, such expenses can totally mess a family's financial dynamics.

I would love for teachers to get a better salary. But to implement a huge tuition increase in a time when the financial struggles are so high, is really wrong and inappropriate. Life expenses have jumped for everyone, not only teachers. Few salaries have made a cost of living adjustments. So almost everyone is in the same boat, not just teachers. Burdening the struggling parents with such an increase screams of self-center behavior in difficult times. As in, the teachers need to be able to get food on table, but no concern for the rest of society.

If they'd do a marginal increase, everyone would understand. But it's really mind boggling to see our fellow yidden do this to us in such a difficult year. The arguments that teachers salaries are low is not a new one, it is not something that just cropped up. To try to rectify that in times of crazy high inflation and with looming signs of a recession is just very very wrong.

So stop guilt tripping us about teachers' salaries right now. We can resume that when the situation lessens. But right now the large majority of salaries are low considering the huge price jumps. Everyone needs food on their tables and a roof over their heads, not just teachers.

You haven't answered my question. On none of the threads about inflation and the high cost of groceries and how people can't afford it did anyone get angry at the store owners for making more money off their backs.

The real difference is that you don't value your kids teacher at all, not that its your only crippling expense.

amother

Peach

Wed, May 25 2022, 10:56 am

amother [ Clear ] wrote:

Option #5 which seems to not happen in Lakewood and other places.
When parents apply for tuition reductions, ask for the full picture.
What programs are you on? How much each?
What support do you get? What gifts?

I have 5 children in school, and a combined income of 90k. The only program we're eligible for is the kids Jersey Care.
My neighbor has the same 5 kids in school, a combined income of 35k (playgroup Morah, BMG). They also get HUD, HEAP, Jersey Care for adults also, food stamps, and CHS (for daycamp). And a huge tax refund (15k we get 3k).
But they get huge tuition reductions because they're only making 35k and we don't because we're making 90k.

I know all this because she shares it all with me.
But if the school would demand that she shared that she's getting $1500 a month from HUD, $1000 a month from food stamps, Jersey Care, etc, they will have a better picture of what parents can and can't afford to pay.

I understand your reasoning and I think that it is a valid one if it can be implemented.

What you are suggesting is that a family's "actual" net income be considered so that other sources of income are factored in. Food stamps are income and are easy to calculate.

If there is a significant child tax credit that should be calculated in the same way that size of family is calculated. In other words it is standard to take into consideration that someone has 7 children instead of 3. However if the person is receiving high tax refunds based on number of children their actual "net" income would be higher.

Some benefits are easy to calculate as increasing the actual income of a family and should be a factor as a way of determining how to allocate limited resources - e.g. reduced tuition and make the process fairer for everyone.

amother

Clear

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:01 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

No. The real issue is that we have no choice.
I can decide to buy chicken but not cheese, but apples but not oranges.
Tuition I either pay or send to PS.
There's no option for me to send but opt out of the new playground, I can't opt out the stencils and coloring sheets that get sent home attached to the Parsha sheet each week. I can't opt out of mandatory bussing.
I can't choose the basic level because that's all I can afford, the way I can choose the basic groceries.

amother

Bone

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:14 am

amother [ Clear ] wrote:

Your tuition didn’t pay for the new playground. Some rich person funded it.

But while you mention it, I know someone who homeschooled all her children. Hired a bunch of teachers and made a small group with other parents. It was basic level.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:16 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Tuition absolutely is the most crippling expense.

As far as groceries, I have cut back drastically on how much I buy. I no longer serve chicken during the week, only on shabbos. Weekday dinners are pasta, bagels, and homemade pizza (funny things is-I have a family member who is a teacher. She was shocked when I told her this. And I'm like- hey, aren't you a poor teacher? So how come you can afford chicken but I cannot?)

There is no option to cut back on tuition. I apply for scholarships and fill out all the forms. But it only gets me so far.

We do value teachers. We just don't have money trees growing in our backyards.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:19 am

amother [ Bone ] wrote:

Well, maybe instead of using that money to build a playground they could have used it to offer scholarships to parents and provide them with some relief. Or they could have used the money to raise the teachers" salaries!!!!

Why are we renovating playgrounds, which is a luxury, during such difficult economic times?!? This is not the time for it!

amother

Milk

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:29 am

My office job if I can't take off. if I need to travel or stay home. I must still do the work from home or travel.
schools should be transparent so we see where all the money goes. And audited.
we need rich erlich/honest frum business minded peoeple running schools because we need to teach the next generation. its not all about running a business but about helping your jewish community the next generation. there are many rich people where I live I know a few schools that take rich people over poor people make fancy dinners... if your in a school that has over the top dinners and please tell your school the spending isn't necessary. rich parent should spend more on tuition or blame yourself.
my kids are in a school where at least half the parents are not that way. they claim it s necessary to raise tuition Let schools be audit and let lakewood have a fund like oorah. for our frum struggling families. who can't afford fancy camps and amazing programs. chesed begins at home

amother

Milk

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:40 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

as someone who has family in the grocery businesses I know the groceries are not making so much money their expense went up drastically. its the manufactures charging them a lot example the whole plastic bag situation and delivery boxes went up in price. The customers don't want to use reusable bags. however in schools its so different. I mentioned over the top dinners with party planners and tons of catered food someone mentioned redoing a playground. Thing that parents don't think is necessary.

imorethanamother

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:44 am

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

Asking honestly. Would you want one school to be for rich people, with a playground and decent teachers, and another school in a warehouse in a bad neighborhood with no playground, no art projects, no windows, one teacher that no one else wanted that was a bargain, and 45 kids per class? Would that make you happy?

I’ve never heard of parents being mad about a playground.

Rich people spent money so your kids could be happy. Their choice wasn’t, should I pay $10,000 for this playground or give the school 1 million dollars to lower everyone’s tuition.

amother

Tealblue

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:48 am

amother [ NeonGreen ] wrote:

As someone involved a bit in administration- it doesn’t work like this. Trust me - the schools wish it did!

Very often the rich donor specifies that they money is earmarked for something. The donor wants to “see” their investment, not have it go to salaries or basic maintenance. They are excited to watch their grandkids and friends play on that playground that they felt was sorely needed (and sometimes they’re excited about the plaque with their name in it too.) In my sons school they have a huge magnificent fish tank that requires major upkeep. When some parents complained to administrators about it, they explained that the donor insisted that’s what the money be used for, and it was worthwhile to keep him happy because at times he does give other very significant donations when they solicit. But it looked bad to some parents. I totally get both sides.

miami85

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:48 am

It is a true problem that we have lots of "have nots" trying pay for other "have nots". Parents are worn thin, and schools are worn thin trying to pay teachers and staff to provide a quality education.

It is not sustainable, but to say that teachers' salaries are "bloated" is just insulting to the wonderful people who work for the meager salaries as they are currently.

I know someone who has been working to try to fix this problem trying to find out a way to bring outside dollars instead of this vicious cycle of one pauper paying the other.

But it is not productive or l'toeles for parents to vilify the schools demanding higher tuition to pay their wonderful staff who take care of our precious neshamos 180 days mandated per year--and give their holidays and weekends to prepare.

imorethanamother

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:50 am

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

The party planner did it for free or maybe to get a tuition discount. The banquet is there to attract rich people, who then turn around and donate hefty sums of money so that your tuitions stay at $7500 instead of $27,000. Rich people are not interested in a phone call asking for millions of dollars.

They are in a comfortable, happy place where they like the food. Their friends next to them are donating a lot of money so they feel peer pressure. And then they play the video so it tugs at your heartstrings.

When’s the last time you donated to a charity that you knew little about from a single phone call, no fundraising event that looked fun and interesting? Marketing is an art. If you don’t understand that, you’d be terrible at running a school and you’d have no donors. Your tuition prices would be sky high.

amother

Pistachio

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:57 am

imorethanamother wrote:

I doubt the wedding hall the dinner is held in is free. Or the caterer. The school I send my children to forces me to give a $360 dinner fee on top of tuition even though I never go to the dinner. It is another ploy to force parents to pay more money. They have other fundraisers throughout the year and advertise they raise millions. This is a great way to get an additional $360 from each parent. And people are not going to dinners they don't know about for entertainment. The only people who go, go because of obligation. No rich person has any real interest in hearing boring speeches. If they want a good meal they will go out to eat with friends. They go to the dinner because they have a connection to the school and feel obligated.

amother

DarkPurple

Wed, May 25 2022, 11:57 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

Did any one of you who are all mad about teachers salaries ever hear of supply and demand? If the schools can't find competent people to work for small salaries, they need to pay more. Even if that means that teachers make "bloated" salaries. What do you want them to do if they can't find people who are willing to make so little money per year, even if the hourly salary is technically good? Do you really want people off the street put in front of your child's classroom?

Its also completely irrelevant whether you think they deserve the money, just like you don't get to decide if the owner of your local grocery store makes too much money or pays his workers too much. Even though you pay him for groceries, he doesn't need to explain his expenses to you or why he gave his worker who has been with him for years a raise. He actually gets to decide how much he needs to pay workers to get the level of help he needs to run his store and also gets to decide how much profit he needs to walk away with to make running a store worthwhile. And no, he doesn't need to open his books to you because he raised the price of groceries by close to 50% on some items. Even though you have no choice but to buy food.
Only when it comes to schools does everyone feel entitled to second guess their decisions and decided that they employees are overpaid. Yes, its coming out of your pocket, but so is the price increases on everything else. So lets start another hundred threads about how awful everyone else who majorly increased prices you is plain evil..

The comparison isn’t a fair one. If I feel a grocery store is charging too much I can shop elsewhere. People do tHat every day. On the other hand if my children are in a school for a few years and raise the tuition to a number I feel is unfair or cannot afford, I can’t switch to another school.
If I feel a gas station charges too much, I don’t need to help them figure out how to charge less. I just go to another place. If I feel a brand of cereal is too expensive I buy another. But if I have no choice but to pay $10,000 more to a school from one year to the next, it’s prudent for me to say “what does this really make sense?” . The chinuch market is a really unique one and can’t be compared to grocery stores or anywhere else where free choice is involved. Very few of us got to simply chose our favorite school before our kids started and now have the option of switching to another if we aren’t happy

amother

Chicory

Wed, May 25 2022, 12:03 pm

It’s crazy that it went up that much but I’m not sure teachers’ salaries are bloated. My single sister is a teacher and she only gets paid like 12K/year (they told her no single teacher is getting paid more than that). Plus, it’s the school she and my other sister went to and the other sister graduated last year and still had a tuition balance so they took that off the first sister’s salary without asking and she got paid like nothing 😢

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 25 2022, 12:05 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

A teacher isn't paid by the number of pupils in their classroom.

The increase is $2000 in their annual salary or $200 per month (amortized over 10 months).

But they are asking each student to pay $200 more per month to cover the raise. If each student is paying $200 more per month then they are receiving a total of minimum of $4K per month. They are claiming it's for the teachers. Are the teachers' raises matching up with the students' increase or is the school using this as a cover to raise tuition? I personally don't know of any school raising their teachers so substantially.

dena613

Wed, May 25 2022, 12:07 pm

amother [ Chicory ] wrote:

I'm sorry. That's geneivah.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, May 25 2022, 12:09 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

It is not only to attract the rich. Many schools have a MANDATORY dinner fee. There is no getting out of it. In fact, some schools had their dinners cancelled in 2020 due to covid and refused to refund the dinner fee even though there was no dinner! And so many parents were struggling then.

My only consolation is that every one of these crooked administrators will face din ve'cheshbon in shamayim. They may get away with it in this world, but hopefully they will not in the next world.

Schools think that the "end justifies the means" and because they are teaching Torah they can obtain money in any way they want, even if it is dishonest. I have more examples but not gonna post them here