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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Teen forged my signature
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 8:59 am
It's not that we don't value studying, trying, and working hard.
It's just looking from your kids perspective. She's a teen. Teens are notorious for not thinking things through.
She got the test back. She knew that showing it to you would mean having to sit through you pointing out all the places where she's "careless". Or a lecture (at least in her mind) about how she needs to try harder, take life more seriously and all those things that she's heard before.
So she's going to try to avoid this lecture and bad experience.
So she signs for you.
Yes it's a bad choice. But my guess is that when she did it, it felt like maybe she can get away with it AND avoid the lecture.

But now, she may still try to avoid the lecture. Maybe she'll "lose" her test? Or "forget" it? Or forge the grade? Or something?

This incident tells you that she feels backed against a wall to avoid that lecture.
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amother
Thistle


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:08 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Really no one here thinks good grades are important? If it makes a difference to the point, I went thru the test with her and she knew every answer, the problem - an ongoing problem - is that she is rushing through the test without putting in proper effort. No one here thinks it's important for her to put in the effort? It's not a subject she struggles with and she doesn't have learning disabilities. She is actually smart.

Of course good grades are important.

But your lectures aren't going to teach her not to rush. They'll just teach her that you're not a safe person to share anything less than 100% success with.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:10 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Really no one here thinks good grades are important? If it makes a difference to the point, I went thru the test with her and she knew every answer, the problem - an ongoing problem - is that she is rushing through the test without putting in proper effort. No one here thinks it's important for her to put in the effort? It's not a subject she struggles with and she doesn't have learning disabilities. She is actually smart.

My sister got top grades (high 90s) without studying much. At one point I would put in hours and hours, had tutors, etc. and still couldn’t manage to get higher than a 70. No, tests are NOT a good measure of retained knowledge. How much of what you learned in school do you remember? Do you remember most of the material that you crammed for? Grades don’t show how well you know the info.
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amother
Darkblue


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:13 am
.
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Cookie Monster




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:17 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Really no one here thinks good grades are important? If it makes a difference to the point, I went thru the test with her and she knew every answer, the problem - an ongoing problem - is that she is rushing through the test without putting in proper effort. No one here thinks it's important for her to put in the effort? It's not a subject she struggles with and she doesn't have learning disabilities. She is actually smart.


How old is your daughter?
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:20 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Really no one here thinks good grades are important? If it makes a difference to the point, I went thru the test with her and she knew every answer, the problem - an ongoing problem - is that she is rushing through the test without putting in proper effort. No one here thinks it's important for her to put in the effort? It's not a subject she struggles with and she doesn't have learning disabilities. She is actually smart.

No I really don't think it's that big of an issue.
Especially if she really does know her work.
It's just a number.

I was a failing student. It didn't matter then and it definitely does not matter now.
I listened in class and applied myself.
That's all that matters in my opinion.
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taketwo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:23 am
Op, if she knows the material why do you care for her to get a good grade?

What's more important to you, your relationship with her or her grades?

To me it seems like the latter is your priority. Sorry to be so harsh.
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amother
Thistle


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:28 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
My sister got top grades (high 90s) without studying much. At one point I would put in hours and hours, had tutors, etc. and still couldn’t manage to get higher than a 70. No, tests are NOT a good measure of retained knowledge. How much of what you learned in school do you remember? Do you remember most of the material that you crammed for? Grades don’t show how well you know the info.

Are you my sister?

We were always told that effort is what counts, not grade. So she was always praised for her efforts and that she rarely scored above 70 didn't matter. Meanwhile my 90s and 100s were never good enough because I hadn't put in effort and when my report card came with a 90 but a "needs improvement" for effort, I was always chastised and told that my high grades were worthless because I didn't work hard enough for them.

And yes in the real world if you want a good income then almost always your grades will matter. No I don't know anyone at school who got poor grades on tests and still remembers what they learned in school.
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amother
Dustypink


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:32 am
I did this as a kid. I wasn’t at all afraid to show my parents my grades, they never made me feel bad if I didn’t do well. But, looking back, I definitely had/have ADHD, and things like having my parents sign my homework or tests were not on my radar when I was home. When I got to school I suddenly remembered it wasn’t done, so I had to do what I had to do to avoid getting into trouble. Then at one point I was “outed” and still remember the trouble I got into. I do not and did not have bad middos, I am the most honest straight person. I just didn’t want to get into trouble. I say, mention it lightly, try figure out without making her feel bad what would work better in future, and move on…
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amother
Crocus


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:32 am
My husband often jokes to the kids that failing a test once in a while is healthy and jokingly encourages them to fail. It’s a great stress reducer when my dd is freaking out about studying for a test.
It’s a great reminder that she can do well if she wants to but not because WE want her to.

Sometimes he takes the joke too far and I quietly remind him that this child does need to study and try.
But it’s a great balancer.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:36 am
amother [ Crocus ] wrote:
My husband often jokes to the kids that failing a test once in a while is healthy and jokingly encourages them to fail. It’s a great stress reducer when my dd is freaking out about studying for a test.
It’s a great reminder that she can do well if she wants to but not because WE want her to.

Sometimes he takes the joke too far and I quietly remind him that this child does need to study and try.
But it’s a great balancer.


She can do well if she can. No kid wants to do badly. What do they gain from that?

I enjoy the joke!
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amother
Crocus


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:38 am
I taught my teenage daughter to forge my signature after she needed a note to leave for an appointment and I had forgotten to give her one. She got in trouble for not having a note and I said never again.

Now she writes her own leave early notes.

I did tell her she should only forge my signature when I give her permission to do so.

I did the same as a child for coming late notes. My mother would drop me off a few minutes late and if she didn’t have time to write a note I would get in trouble. So I wrote my own notes. It worked well.

And the ability to forge my parents signature saved me from a difficult situation later in life and I and they were grateful I could do it.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:48 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
My sister got top grades (high 90s) without studying much. At one point I would put in hours and hours, had tutors, etc. and still couldn’t manage to get higher than a 70. No, tests are NOT a good measure of retained knowledge. How much of what you learned in school do you remember? Do you remember most of the material that you crammed for? Grades don’t show how well you know the info.

I understand but this is totally not my daughter. She is very capable of good grades and gets them when she tries
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amother
Snapdragon


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:55 am
Fox wrote:
I'm sorry, OP, but you've set up a system that incentivizes all kinds of bad behavior.

When I was a teacher, I could always identify the students who were being rewarded for grades. They cared nothing about learning -- even if they genuinely found the material interesting. It was all about the grade. Every quiz was a battle with these kids for an extra half-a-point. Every missed question on a test was a fight-to-the-death for an extra point. Those, btw, were often the same students who would deliberately avoid any course where a good grade might be harder to get. No advanced coursework for them! They were usually on the lookout for the easiest grades. Is that realy what you want?

Get out of the business of rewarding your DD for academic performance. Instead, work with her to find effective study habits -- there are tons of books with different approaches and types of advice for students to be more productive in their schoolwork. If necessary, find a good in-person coach to help her master the material. Send the message that productive studying and preparation are the goal -- not getting a specific grade in a class.


Not to derail the conversation here but you might have been wrong about some of those kids. My DD will fight for every point because she wants it. We soooo don’t make a big deal about grades (she is really bright & does well in school b”h), but she will fight for every point she thinks she deserves. I was the same way (my parents didn’t reward either), it always bothered me if I felt my grade wasn’t ‘fair’. It was like getting paid less than I deserved for work I did.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 9:59 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand but this is totally not my daughter. She is very capable of good grades and gets them when she tries


Ok. But maybe she didn't want to try
Why does she always have to perform her best and if she doesn't, her mother points out all the places she's not.
If I serve frozen pizza for supper even though I'm capable of making chicken and potatoes, I wouldn't appreciate him pointing out all the ways I'm not up to par.
How come we expect our children to always perform at their top capacity, but we as adults are allowed an occasional "lazy day" where we just serve frozen pizza or don't iron the shirts or don't scrub the floor.
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 10:01 am
amother [ Thistle ] wrote:
Are you my sister?

We were always told that effort is what counts, not grade. So she was always praised for her efforts and that she rarely scored above 70 didn't matter. Meanwhile my 90s and 100s were never good enough because I hadn't put in effort and when my report card came with a 90 but a "needs improvement" for effort, I was always chastised and told that my high grades were worthless because I didn't work hard enough for them.

And yes in the real world if you want a good income then almost always your grades will matter. No I don't know anyone at school who got poor grades on tests and still remembers what they learned in school.

Oy, I’m so sorry!!! No, we are not sisters (although for a second I was excited that we might be!!) My effort was rarely praised, but her grades always were. Not in a bad way, not in a way that made me feel bad, or just was what it was. BH she is very smart, and I know that I am too. By 7th grade I mostly stopped caring, except in the subjects I cared about- English, science, history….I stopped caring around the time that teachers figured I would perform the same way she did, and then were surprised (and let me and/my parents know about their disappointment) when I didn’t. Mind you, she is 6 years older than me, and there are siblings in between us.
Also, I know plenty of people who are successful in their jobs and make a nice income and did not do well academically in school.
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amother
Hawthorn


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 10:21 am
OP, you should let your daughter know that your love and approval is not defined by test scores.

And that she can trust you and doesn't need to hide things for you or forge your signature.

Having high expectations is fine as long as your kid doesn't feel like unless they get good grades they are not worthy.

Make sure she knows these are all hiccups and that everyone already got a bad grade in life, it's normal and next time she'll do better.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 10:52 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand but this is totally not my daughter. She is very capable of good grades and gets them when she tries


Really? Well then why is she 'not trying?' Get curious.
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amother
Thistle


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 11:52 am
amother [ Crocus ] wrote:
I taught my teenage daughter to forge my signature after she needed a note to leave for an appointment and I had forgotten to give her one. She got in trouble for not having a note and I said never again.

Now she writes her own leave early notes.

I did tell her she should only forge my signature when I give her permission to do so.

I did the same as a child for coming late notes. My mother would drop me off a few minutes late and if she didn’t have time to write a note I would get in trouble. So I wrote my own notes. It worked well.

And the ability to forge my parents signature saved me from a difficult situation later in life and I and they were grateful I could do it.

I was always good at forging (did not need to be taught) but I only forged with permission.

"I need you to sign my homework." "What is it?" "Just a worksheet that you have to sign that I did on my own." "Just sign for me."

"I need you to sign my test." "What did you get?" "95" "Just sign for me"
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amother
Thistle


 

Post Thu, May 26 2022, 12:04 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I understand but this is totally not my daughter. She is very capable of good grades and gets them when she tries

So she's capable, how come she's not getting good grades? Why isn't she trying?

And why are you judging her based on how hard you think she is trying instead of just accepting her as she is?

You're not doing her any favors, you know. She might turn into an overachiever for a period of time in her efforts to reach 100% and please you, and then she'll burn out, as a young mother who realizes she can never be 100%....which means she isn't really trying, because if she tried she WOULD make 100%, and obviously since no one loves her or appreciates her unless she makes 100%, everything she's doing is worthless and no one cares about her, because they only care when she succeeds, not when she fails.

You are her mother, you are teaching her how the world sees and appreciates her. Is this the message you want her to be getting? That she is only seen, loved, appreciated, that her efforts are only worth anything, if she tries very very hard and succeeds 100%?
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