What went wrong in Texas?

gold21

Sun, May 29 2022, 6:25 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Lots of things went wrong, including a teenage madman being able to legally buy rifles to go kill children. The fact is that there was armed security who wasn’t there so this wasn’t a “gun free zone” plus lots of parents and cops with guns and it still didn’t help.

I'm not following your logic. I'm sorry. I'm just not following at all.

The fact that this wasn't a gun free zone means nothing in light of the fact that the premises were not secured. THE PREMISES WERE NOT SECURED. The fact that it wasn't a gun free zone didn't help because, like I said, the premises were not secured.

Can you elaborate on your thought process?

You suggest that there was an armed guard in staff and that having him on staff didn't help (and your conclusion is presumably that armed guards don't help). Well, the guard wasn't there! How could he have helped? Remotely? By telepathically sending good vibrations to the school? Over Zoom? By sending good wishes? He was not there.

The premises were not secured.

Last edited by gold21 on Sun, May 29 2022, 7:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

#BestBubby

Sun, May 29 2022, 6:29 pm

gold21 wrote:

Dancing Queen is wrong. Robb Elementary WAS a gun free zone

NotInNJMommy

Sun, May 29 2022, 6:37 pm

The incident commander made the wrong decision that there were no live civilians in the room the shooter had barricaded himself in. As a result of this wrong assumption, the incident commander characterized the situation differently than an active shooter--which would have been the right thing to do if it were no longer an "active shooter". It would be necessary to understand how this decision was made. Working in emergency response myself, the commanders involved carry a huge responsibility on their shoulders and rely on life and death quick decisions, often with unreliable or conflicting information. I 100% agree there needs to be a look at what happened and what went right and what went wrong, and fixing it. I caution against assuming the first responders, including the incident commander, were casual about the decisions that they made. This was probably the worst nightmare of the incident commander - to make the wrong call and have more lives lost because of it. Had the incident commander been right about there being no live civilians barricaded in the room with the shooter, it would have been cavalier and irresponsible to send in police guns ablazing without proper back up/plans, and more life could have been lost then too. These first responders are humans too, and no human in this line of work is casual about the lives they are tasked to protect and minimize the loss off--both of civilians and other first responders who have families too.

gold21

Sun, May 29 2022, 6:50 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

In theory, this exact argument could be used every time a cop kills a perpetrator. This bad decision led to the death of these children. Do you think George Floyd's killer should get out of jail and have charges dropped? At what point is a bad decision that causes loss of life prosecutable?

gold21

Sun, May 29 2022, 7:39 pm

I just saw the funniest article by Axios.

Former President Trump called for heightened school security mechanisms at the National Rifle Association's annual meeting in Houston, Texas on Friday — mechanisms that Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, the site of a mass shooting that left 19 kids and two teachers dead earlier this week, had.

"What we need now is a top-to-bottom security overhaul at schools all across our country," Trump said.

"Every building should have a single point of entry. There should be strong exterior fencing, metal detectors and the use of new technology to make sure that no unauthorized individuals can ever enter the school with a weapon."

"In addition, classroom doors should be hardened to make them lockable from the inside and closed to intruders from the outside. And above all, from this day forward, every school in America should have a police officer or an armed resource officer on duty at all times."

The former president also called for arming teachers and the end of gun-free school zones.

"Surely, we can all agree our school should not be the softest target. Our schools should be the single hardest target in our country," Trump said.

Robb Elementary School had both doors that lock from the inside and a hired security officer at the time of the shooting.

And the article continues-

Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said on Friday that the school's officer was not on the campus when shooting near the school was first reported but immediately proceeded to the scene.

After arriving at the scene, the security officer drove past the shooter and instead confronted a teacher, McCraw said.

McCraw said the shooter gained access to the school through a door that had been previously propped open by a teacher.

Ummmmmm. Obviously, Trump is calling for armed security to be ON PREMISES at all times and doors to be locked, not casually propped open. What good is an armed guard procured by the school for security purposes if he is out at the local pizza shop chowing down on a falafel? Are the people who write those articles intentionally daft? What good is a door with a lock if the door is propped open?

What kind of IQ screening is in place for people who write for Axios? It reads like a bad joke.

vintagebknyc

Sun, May 29 2022, 8:21 pm

Living Princess wrote:

This cartoon is a disgrace to those who were murdered. It's wrong to use this tragedy as a forum for sarcasm.

I think this conversation about gun rights is a disgrace to all the children who were killed. And continue to be killed. And will be killed tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, all in the name of gun rights.

Last edited by vintagebknyc on Sun, May 29 2022, 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

gold21

Sun, May 29 2022, 8:25 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

And the fact that a vote on the Luke & Alex School Security Act, named after the victims of the Parkland shooting, and championed by their parents, was just shot down by Democrats? Is that disgraceful or not?

#BestBubby

Sun, May 29 2022, 9:50 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

WRONG!

They are killed in the name of GUN FREE ZONES.

100% of schools with armed security who engaged the shooter never had a mass shooting.

20,000 gun laws never prevented a mass shooting.

Democrat politicians have armed guards for themselves and their kid's private schools. Democrats. against armed guards for the peasants.

ora_43

Mon, Jun 06 2022, 1:18 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

I think that if good people weren’t allowed to have guns or were more restricted from having guns then there would be more gun violence every year. Bad people figure out how to get guns no matter what the law is. The only thing that stops them is good people with guns.

Very belated reply, but - this has the ring of truthiness, but is not actually true.

It feels like bad guys would find a way to get guns no matter what. But in reality, the decision to murder (or to commit suicide) is often a momentary urge, and not one that people try particularly hard to pursue.

Waiting periods to buy guns - just the delay itself, without actually restricting access long term - lead to fewer suicides and fewer murders. As in, there's a not-insignificant number of people who go out to buy a gun to shoot themselves, are forced to wait a week, and decide "forget it, I may as well just live."

Logical? Not in the slightest. But if you think about it, there's nothing logical about suicide or murder in the first place. So is it really so strange?

It's not just guns btw. The British gas ovens situation is the most famous case of this. Just reducing gas ovens reduced suicide rates dramatically. Because, strange as it sounds, people who are willing to take the extreme step of killing themselves are often not motivated to find a second way to do it if the first doesn't work out.

#BestBubby

Mon, Jun 06 2022, 11:20 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Disagree.

All school shootings are PLANNED weeks in advance. Waiting period wouldn't prevent.