I want to keep hosting for simchas, but…

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WhatFor

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:32 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

The baalei Simcha shouldn’t share their Simcha with family?

Not everyone can share in every simcha unfortunately. In a recent example, I know someone who couldn't attend a sheva brachot because the available accomodations were too risky a walk for their toddler with no eruv and they didn't want to get stuck with a toddler who refused to walk. Sometimes life happens.

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:32 am

amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:

That's terrible. I think people will such a situation who can't afford a hotel shouldn't host out of town guests. It's not fair to anyone.

This would mean only rich ppl have the right to simchos with their families.

(Besides for that story I’ve had many sits were I was hosted so graciously. We have relatives a 9 hour drive from our home and every time we go for a simcha we have been hosted above and beyond by total strangers)

amother

Denim

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:36 am

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Not having the means usually means not having the financial ability. It doesn’t generally mean not having the physical space.
I’m not arguing with anyone. I am just stating my opinion.

Not having the means generally refers to resources. It includes finances, physical space, human capabilities, and anything else that falls under necessary resources.

amother

Outerspace

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:38 am

amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:

It's not about rights it's about being realistic. Having a tiny apartment and not having a place for your guests to eat breakfast or sit the whole shabbos is not ok. If you rented the shul and put food there and some chairs to hang out that's ok. It has nothing to do with being rich. But you need to supply the barest minimum, which is a clean comfortable place to hang out all day, and some food when not at the meals.

amother

Green

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:43 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Not having the means generally refers to resources. It includes finances, physical space, human capabilities, and anything else that falls under necessary resources.

Got it. I see it means different things to different people.

wife101

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 11:48 am

I did not read all the responses, so this might have been said. How about putting some toys in the guest room that the kids stay in and clearly state that all other rooms in the house are off limits except for coming and going...

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:11 pm

clowny wrote:

Oh you bet.
I have bookings for January already.

Wow. Guess its a BM or other very important gathering.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:25 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I didn’t say her playroom MUST be open to everyone. What I said was that as a hostess of a Simcha, I would not appreciate my guests who is t up at 6:30 or 7:00 or even 7:30 in the morning. Like the OP, shabbos is my only morning to sleep. My kids know to go downstairs when they wake up, not to come and wake me up. Of course she should set conditions, not sure why you think I disagree.

Nobody is thrilled about guests at 06.30 AM Smile

However, the baalat hasimcha does need to have a place and space arranged for guests (who are sleeping in other people's houses) with breakfast etc. It's simply the nature of being the baalat hasimcha that it's work making a simcha. Chilling relaxing and sleeping will be done at another time.

imaima

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They do sometimes play with the guests kids. But expecting it to happen (even if raining) is unfair, and making it sound like they’re not ‘metchlich’ if they don’t is unfair too.

None of the toys are on display. They’re all in clearly marked closets, with those available for guests marked as such…

The guests can definitely hang out for a bit and we make things very comfortable for them if they need, but if they need to be there all day (not just for napping) then it becomes hard.

We have a fridge for water bottles down there (and to keep baby stuff if necessary). We feed their kids breakfast. At night we show them our kitchen so they can eat or make coffee if they need in the morning. They can always ask us for things.

While it might sound to you like we’re resentful all the time, actually we do the mitzvah with a lot of happiness and make our guests extremely comfortable so that they all want to come back.

Nice of you to say we’re not ready to forgo our comfort. That was sweet.

Of course you added tons of details and then got upset about what I said before you added the details.
If everything was so good you wouldn’t be asking this question.

imaima

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:47 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

I think the best solution for everyone would be to stop hosting or to tell the baalei simcha that you can't host children
I know that when we go away for a family simcha with our kids (which we try to avoid as much as possible) it is so so stressful for us. Our children are in a strange home, strange beds, sometimes jet-lagged, and almost always off schedule.
If I got to a home and the host said please don't let you children out of the room until 9am or here is a whole playroom but only play with this small basket of toys - I'd probably sit down right there and start crying.
No, I don't feel entitled, but I expect to be put up somewhere where the family hosting me and my children realizes that these are children and they may not be angels Surprised

. And if it doesn't work for you, then by all means explain that to the baal simcha beforehand.

This
I traveled for simcha once and was informed where I was staying. The family was very fancy but conditions impossible for my kids. In the end baaley simcha had arranged for me to stay in a much simpler space but with better conditions for us.

imaima

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:50 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

If you got to a hotel you probably do have to keep your kids in your room, right? (Unless you take two rooms with a connecting door or a suite)
So what's the difference?

I wouldn’t go to a hotel, or I would go to hang out with the kids in the lobby. They would also be able to be outside the room in the corridor

amother

Cinnamon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:56 pm

imaima wrote:

Yes This! My sil made a simcha oot and put my teens in a fancy shmancy house with en suite bathrooms, robes, the works. Lots of artwork downstairs. My Littles and me/dh she places in a small simple apt where the family had gone away for shobbos,
it was a further walk too .

She said she thought we would be happier and more relaxed there.

She was 1000000% right!

imaima

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:58 pm

Alternative wrote:

Shocked that anyone actually thinks like this. What kind of hotels do you go to? Have you seen other kids running wild in the lobby and halls, or only yours?

You aren't the only one who paid to stay in the hotel - everyone else did too, and they paid for a pleasant quiet experience, and to be able to sit on furniture without shoe marks.

Lol yes have seen it a lot!

amother

Green

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 12:59 pm

imaima wrote:

Lol yes have seen it a lot!

That’s horrible :-(

Ima03

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:01 pm

We have 2 guest bedrooms on different floors. Both have private bathrooms.

We recently moved my beis mesdrash son into one of them, with the plan that when he's not home, we can use it as a guest bedroom. He put in the request we don't put little kids in there, as they will touch his stuff. We tell people they are welcome to use my second room but only for adults.

Can you tell the baal simcha you cannot host families with little kids as your kids need their space? You'd be happy to host adults and teens only.

amother

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:04 pm

Thanks all for your responses!
And it’s really nice to hear so many differing opinions.

To add some information:
It is our pleasure to let them use the playroom. Usually I tell them to but sometimes I forget and I’ve had those people that ask and those people that assume they can just use everything and anything.
It is a big, comfortable room and there are two huge closets with toys they can use. The third closet is locked with a childproof lock and a sign not to use. Sometimes people ignore that, which drives my kids batty.
Sometimes people let their kids play while eating cookies (just had this happen) so now we have to clean EVERY SINGLE toy as we don’t know what they played with.
Yes, we do have a sign that says to please not eat downstairs.
We expect the people will hang out after the seudah at night (in the summer they go right to sleep but in the winter it could be at least a couple of hours). We do expect them to be here for a bit in the morning, and we always offer breakfast (some ppl take us up on it but most ppl don’t), but normally most people go to the Baal Simcha.
To say the Baal Simcha doesn’t want people early in the morning because she needs her rest is just off, in my opinion. When you’re the one making the Simcha, you don’t get to rest and let all your kids make noise in someone else’s house.
What we don’t expect is a huge amount of noise early in the morning (the bedrooms are large enough to bring toys in there and play and if you talk in a normal tone of voice in the playroom it doesn’t wake us up - it’s when kids run around and scream). We also assume the Baal Simcha will have a plan for their families so that we’re not hosting them all day, especially on long shabbosim.
I’ve made a few of my own simchos. I’ve also been a guest at many (which I find very difficult but that’s what it takes to be with family…)
You MUST have a place for each family to be. Either you got them an empty home or a house where they truly have the whole floor to themselves, like a separate basement, or they are invited to your house, or you rent out the shul for the day, or you identify someone else that is willing to open their home and host your people all shabbos day (my SIL did that and her SIL graciously opened her home to everyone when SIL made a bar mitzvah in a neighborhood where she didn’t live herself). The point is, you CANNOT invite guests to a Simcha and leave them to fend for themselves all morning and then again all afternoon with nowhere for them to go except the hosts’ home, unless you’ve cleared it with the host and made sure it’s okay with them and the accommodations are good for that. Otherwise, it’s not fair to your guests and not fair to the host.
Maybe we should start a spin-off on how to be a good Baal Simcha.
You shouldn’t get the opinion that we don’t want to do this or go out of our way.
But these issues have become such a big deal that I didn’t know what to do….
And while it’s important to communicate and I am generally a good communicator, I find it so difficult to tell people a lot of ‘rules’ as it’s so uncomfortable for them…

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:07 pm

amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:

No not if they don't have the means. It's a not a big deal to not have every relative come. We've had some where we just put up grandparents, you don't need every last aunt, uncle and cousin. If you have no where for them to hang out all shabbos it doesn't make sense to have them all come. You need to be realistic.

Most of my family make simchos on a sunday afternoon or evening, enough time for people to fly in and out for the day, and thats what I have done for all my kids bar/bas mitsvos. Just parents and maybe one or two siblings came for shabbos. I don't live in the type of place where people have free (!!!) guest suites, so its hotels or our spare room.

I was just told that one of my husbands relatives is making a shabbos simcha that we are expected to attend, and it will cost us a lot of money to go, find a hotel within walking distance with shabbos friendly keys...I am already dreading it.

amother

Gold

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:23 pm

It really sounds to me like the guests are assuming the playroom is part of the guest suite / there’s to use.

I would follow above advice - host less often and try not to have little kids. But when you do have little kids I would be as direct as possible. The sign up with Hours for sure. And clearly telling the parents the hours, which toys are off limits as well as “this is my kids playroom but they’re happy to share it” , so that the guests were clearly told it’s not their room to have all their other relatives visiting (how weird ! )

amother

PlumPink

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:33 pm

Hi neighbor! We've discussed this a lot. I recognize the post and discussion so I can explain. OP has a wonderful setup and is a gracious host. B'h the many people in the neighborhood are making simchos. Sheva Brochos, BM and aufrufs. Also just YomTovs with a few married couples. There are no hotels in the area nor playgrounds. We all have decent backyards with many having swingsets etc.

We are all relying on each other's guest rooms in order to make a simcha. In my family it is accepted not to invite young children and this is one of the reasons. Where do we put them up?

I am making a Shabbos simcha soon and am not inviting any children except for mine and the chosson's siblings. Because where will I put them up? And now I will know what to tell all the guests, because I hear it from the other side.

And my advice is 'No children' in your basement for the foreseeable future.

OP is constantly getting the 'family' guest because she has such a large guest suite. Most people only have one guest room to give.

And OP you're the best! Let noone let you think otherwise!

amother

Cinnamon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:35 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I dint know where you live, but I have family in different neighborhoods in Lakewood, 5 towns, and other cities throughout the USA and almost none have a hotel within walking distance. I have been hosted everywhere , with that being what most baalei simcha do and what the community does for eachother.

No city I have been in has the expectation that family fly in for the day.
(In lkwd some (edited) people do not host extended family for bar mitzvah shobbos, but they'd host guests flying in!)

It's nearly impossible to do fly in/out in most places without an overnight stay anyway....how early are you ending the simcha?

Edited to change many to some

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