I want to keep hosting for simchas, but…

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks all for your responses!
And it’s really nice to hear so many differing opinions.

To add some information:
It is our pleasure to let them use the playroom. Usually I tell them to but sometimes I forget and I’ve had those people that ask and those people that assume they can just use everything and anything.
It is a big, comfortable room and there are two huge closets with toys they can use. The third closet is locked with a childproof lock and a sign not to use. Sometimes people ignore that, which drives my kids batty.
Sometimes people let their kids play while eating cookies (just had this happen) so now we have to clean EVERY SINGLE toy as we don’t know what they played with.
Yes, we do have a sign that says to please not eat downstairs.
We expect the people will hang out after the seudah at night (in the summer they go right to sleep but in the winter it could be at least a couple of hours). We do expect them to be here for a bit in the morning, and we always offer breakfast (some ppl take us up on it but most ppl don’t), but normally most people go to the Baal Simcha.
To say the Baal Simcha doesn’t want people early in the morning because she needs her rest is just off, in my opinion. When you’re the one making the Simcha, you don’t get to rest and let all your kids make noise in someone else’s house.
What we don’t expect is a huge amount of noise early in the morning (the bedrooms are large enough to bring toys in there and play and if you talk in a normal tone of voice in the playroom it doesn’t wake us up - it’s when kids run around and scream). We also assume the Baal Simcha will have a plan for their families so that we’re not hosting them all day, especially on long shabbosim.
I’ve made a few of my own simchos. I’ve also been a guest at many (which I find very difficult but that’s what it takes to be with family…)
You MUST have a place for each family to be. Either you got them an empty home or a house where they truly have the whole floor to themselves, like a separate basement, or they are invited to your house, or you rent out the shul for the day, or you identify someone else that is willing to open their home and host your people all shabbos day (my SIL did that and her SIL graciously opened her home to everyone when SIL made a bar mitzvah in a neighborhood where she didn’t live herself). The point is, you CANNOT invite guests to a Simcha and leave them to fend for themselves all morning and then again all afternoon with nowhere for them to go except the hosts’ home, unless you’ve cleared it with the host and made sure it’s okay with them and the accommodations are good for that. Otherwise, it’s not fair to your guests and not fair to the host.
Maybe we should start a spin-off on how to be a good Baal Simcha.
You shouldn’t get the opinion that we don’t want to do this or go out of our way.
But these issues have become such a big deal that I didn’t know what to do….
And while it’s important to communicate and I am generally a good communicator, I find it so difficult to tell people a lot of ‘rules’ as it’s so uncomfortable for them…

How can a childproof lock be opened? Scratching Head

Guess you probably need a proper lock which won't let even adults to pry open.
I would go *mad* if I found cookie crumbs in the toy box.
I would seriously call up the couple who stayed and speak my mind. This is making an imposition on the hostess.
No wonder why people on this thread say accommodations for adults/teens only.

watergirl

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Sometimes people let their kids play while eating cookies (just had this happen) so now we have to clean EVERY SINGLE toy as we don’t know what they played with.

Just on this - why do you have to clean every single toy if someone ate a cookie while playing? If you are doing this for Pesach, please ask your LOR, as every single LOR I've ever spoken to has said residue from chametz is not chametz, neither are crumbs left behind from a cookie if they are small enough to be considered crumbs.

I'm wondering if you are making this harder on yourself than it needs to be.

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

How can a childproof lock be opened? Scratching Head

Cookie crumbs in a toybox is one thing, but it means just cleaning out the toybox. Not cleaning every toy in the playroom....

amother

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:50 pm

We have scores of toys, each in a different neat box. We don’t have 1 toy box. The family played with numerous toys while eating, and then thoughtfully put them all away. I would think there could be more than tiny crumbs there, and besides, we don’t want bugs…

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:54 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Most of my family make simchos on a sunday afternoon or evening, enough time for people to fly in and out for the day, and thats what I have done for all my kids bar/bas mitsvos. Just parents and maybe one or two siblings came for shabbos. I don't live in the type of place where people have free (!!!) guest suites, so its hotels or our spare room.

I was just told that one of my husbands relatives is making a shabbos simcha that we are expected to attend, and it will cost us a lot of money to go, find a hotel within walking distance with shabbos friendly keys...I am already dreading it.

Just as a side note: a simcha invitation is an invitation only, it's NOT an army draft where you must show up at said time and place. If it's costly, above your budget and make it a huge inconvenience I would say don't go.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 1:58 pm

watergirl wrote:

Cookie crumbs in a toybox is one thing, but it means just cleaning out the toybox. Not cleaning every toy in the playroom....

Pesach or not Pesach, OP says a clear sign states "not food"
It is not unreasonable at all to restrict food in certain areas of the house.
I don't get it why kids have to snack snack snack constantly.

amother

Cinnamon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 2:39 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op, you sound really sweet and generous and want to raise kids that are as well, which is why you want to get them acclimated to hosting.

I'm sure your kids ARE sweet and generous, but also normal - which is why they don't want strangers playing with their stuff and constantly on their space over shobbos.

Perhaps you are more than typically generous and patient, but you have your limits as well.

There are people and children who are super super super chilled. They shrug off messes and aren't particular about those things. and maybe their kids are up at 630 am anyway.

IT'S OK IF THAT IS NOT YOU!

It's OK TO NOT BE A MARTYR!!!!!

if you are feeling resentful on a regular basis than you are being a martyr.

You can respect your limits. You want to host large families, but your setup and family dynamics (late sleepers, who are easy to wake) does not seem like it works well with that altruistic desire. You are a very neat and clean person and keep needing to work hard to maintain that with families.
Limit to who you are comfortable hosting.

If you want to push yourself and kids, perhaps only host families a couple times a year. You'll be more able to focus on giving over your expectations and you won't be intruding on your kids space.

Other times only agree to adults.

Or you can push yourself for extreme need (medical procedures, grandmother dying, ac/ heat out) verses a simcha where, I'm very sorry, there is no extreme need for every last person to come (though it's super nice and I've been hosted and held many such simchas).

In a few years you can reevaluate.

Tuzku lmitzvos!!

amother

Outerspace

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 2:52 pm

watergirl wrote:

Cookie crumbs in a toybox is one thing, but it means just cleaning out the toybox. Not cleaning every toy in the playroom....

Because bugs, and grossness I would clean it all too.

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 2:56 pm

OP I think you have done wonderful Hachnasas Orchim.
I myself have found it intense to host families with children on long summer Shabbosim. I remember a couple of incidents, including:

*family with 5 children showing up as DH was making Kiddush (we make early Shabbos). The kids were running thru our house screaming as the parents settled themselves. We could barely hear DH.

*family hanging out at our house all afternoon, and even bringing additional cousins along to play in our playroom, emptying our entire game closet and making (and leaving) a wreck.

*family that showed up expecting babysitting all Shabbos, till past midnight and all afternoon. Baby was NOT sleeping. I was exhausted.

It's perfectly OK to put your family first, especially on Shabbos when family time is so important. Sometimes you need to set boundaries, maybe temporarily. This might include not hosting children (I generally host couples, maybe with a young child or two - I stopped hosting so many at a time - or families with older kids past the playroom stage, or Bubby and Zaidy....), specifying what accommodations will and will NOT be available (I specify that I don't do babysitting). There's nothing wrong or rude with this.

When you set boundaries and the mitzvah becomes enjoyable for you and your family (with no resentment), it enables you to do the mitzvah MORE - not less (this is what our Rav told us).

watergirl

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:02 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I'm with you here. They should not have brought food into the playroom.

I just feel that cleaning every single toy in a huge playroom, because a kid ate cookies in there is overkill. To each their own.

lamplighter

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:11 pm

I am curious about the inviting no kids to a sleep over/weekend simcha. Are only people with no children or grown children invited? In most frum families that would cut out a majority of the family.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:15 pm

amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:

I dint know where you live, but I have family in different neighborhoods in Lakewood, 5 towns, and other cities throughout the USA and almost none have a hotel within walking distance. I have been hosted everywhere , with that being what most baalei simcha do and what the community does for eachother.

No city I have been in has the expectation that family fly in for the day.
(In lkwd some (edited) people do not host extended family for bar mitzvah shobbos, but they'd host guests flying in!)

It's nearly impossible to do fly in/out in most places without an overnight stay anyway....how early are you ending the simcha?

Edited to change many to some

There are Jewish people living outside the USA. Smile

But anyway, a person living in Boro Park could make a sunday afternoon simcha and family who live in Lakewood, Williamsburg and Monsey can drive in and out without requiring a place to stay. And people living a flight away can probably fly in the morning and maybe even return the same day.

Anyway my point is a shabbos simcha is not necessary in many cases.

I want people to come to my simcha, so I try and make it easy.

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:26 pm

lamplighter wrote:

I am curious about the inviting no kids to a sleep over/weekend simcha. Are only people with no children or grown children invited? In most frum families that would cut out a majority of the family.

I have family members who only invite adults, no kids, to Simchas. I place out my kids if I can, and if not, I don't go.

amother

Antiquewhite

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:41 pm

I don't think it's nice to invite ppl without their kids. I'm in my upper 40's and I still remember my parents going out for the shabbos seuda ans we were not invited. It was not a good feeling.
If you can't have kids,don't invite !

amother

Cinnamon

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:42 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

There are Jewish people living outside the USA. Smile

Of course people live outside the USA. But the person I quoted acted as if it was a given that guests could FLY in/out, and why doesn't everyone do that?

A large percentage of do live in the USA and I'm telling you flying in/out does not work well for a simchas to/from many places.....especially on a sunday. I've tried! (Plus when it does work it typically is unaffordable $$$$$)

Difference is I guess you can stay in hotel Sunday night which you can't do on shobbos in most US places (despite what poster claimed).

Yes. NY lkwd can skip shobbos events, and I see it's becoming more common.

However, plenty host and have their guests hosted. It's a cycle. I don't think people are looking to stop shobbos simchos.

flowerpower

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:54 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

I disagree 20000% but you can start a spinoff

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 3:56 pm

I made Shabbos sheva brochos besides everyone bringing there kids would be to costly it would also have been a circus. If you can’t leave your kids for a Shabbos which usually is dividing them once in 6 months or only for the meals then I think it’s an issue

keym

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:05 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

It's entirely community dependent.
I was raised in a large OOT community.

When my sister got married, the hall was only available on a Thursday night. Practically that means the chassan, his younger siblings, married siblings and their children, and the kalla's married siblings and their children came for the shabbos Sheva Brachos.
You can't tell people not to bring their kids to the Sheva Brachos. They're in a different city, they don't know people.
I guess you can tell them not to bring their children to the Chasuna at all, but that tends to not be acceptable.

In the large OOT communities that I'm familiar with, it's considered standard that children come for Sheva Brachos because they have nowhere else to go.

In Lakewood, I see different attitudes. Especially depending on where the chassan and kalla are from and where the children are from and is it possible to no invite some or all.

amother

Green

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:05 pm

lamplighter wrote:

I am curious about the inviting no kids to a sleep over/weekend simcha. Are only people with no children or grown children invited? In most frum families that would cut out a majority of the family.

In my family (meaning my side, not my husbands) it is only children over bar/bat mitzvah.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:05 pm

amother [ Antiquewhite ] wrote:

I respectfully disagree.
If parents once in a blue moon get an invitation for Shabbos without kids it shouldn't be a big deal. Parents are certainly allowed adults-only event. In fact they might even enjoy it Smile

amother

Green

Tue, Jun 07 2022, 4:09 pm

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

There are Jewish people living outside the USA. Smile

What about people living outside NY/NJ? Or outside the US? Making a Simcha and expecting everyone to just fly in for the day can often exclude a chi no of people.