S/O Question for yeshivish newly marrieds

amother

Freesia

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 4:24 pm

amother [ Petunia ] wrote:

Sheva brachos is a separate story, but why do parents need to pay for adult children's gowns or make up? Whether married or single?
And most young yeshivish couples I know (relatives) pay their own traveling expenses.

Not everyone does these stuff. People choose what to do. If you don’t want to do it don’t. Not sure why it bothers you that people do this.

It’s like a kid comes home and says everyone is going or everyone has this when it’s like a quarter of the everyone

amother

Petunia

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 5:29 pm

amother [ Freesia ] wrote:

I don't care what people do but when they complain about something they *feel* they are entitled to and that the parents are deficient in some way for not providing it that says a lot about the maturity level of these young couples and maybe they aren't as independent as they imagine they are.
If you are getting it, I'm happy for you.
If you aren't why are you holding a grudge against your parents who for whatever reason can't provide you with it? Again, maturity level. Being an adult is accepting responsibility for your own lives.

amother

Chestnut

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 5:37 pm

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

I'm married almost four years. My in-laws let me choose from a bunch of kallah bracelets that are comprised of diamond chips only, an engagement ring, pearl necklace, leichter (actually very bekavadik) and a siddur and tehillim and only Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur machzarim with my name on them.
My parents paid for our car and my shaitels, furniture etc.
The boy's side paid for flowers, music, photographer but not videographer. My parents supplemented the flowers and music because they can afford to and they wanted more than what my in-laws could pay for. They also paid for a brand name singer.
I wish my kallah bracelet wasn't only diamond chips and I wish I didn't get a pearl necklace because I don't like it or wear it.
I don't think it's fair to expect more than what I received as a kallah, knowing my in-laws are klei kodesh.
Separately, it does bother me when my in-laws make chasunahs and the marrieds are all on our own for makeup, hair, gowns and all other wedding expenses. On top of that, we're expected to make at least one siblings sheva brachos and it ends up being a lot of money. When my parents make weddings, they pay for hair, makeup, gowns, babysitting at the wedding etc.
Also, my in laws live out of town and do not help pay for traveling expenses for sukkos and Pesach. I understand that they are paying for food and hosting us so I guess that is all they can afford.

This is A LOT of expectations. And a lot of "only" gifts.

They ONLY got me a choice of diamond chip bracelets...
ONLY an engagement (diamond) ring...
ONLY a pearl necklace that I didn't really want...
ONLY a very expensive ("bekavodik") set of leichter...
ONLY a siddur AND Tehillim AND Rosh Hashana Machzor AND Yom Kippur Machzor...

They didn't get a videographer...
They didn't get a "brand-name" singer...
They didn't get nice enough flowers...

But it's okay.
My parents filled in those gaps.

What I'm NOT okay with is that they don't pay for us to travel to them for Sukkos or Pesach!
I mean, shouldn't they be so grateful for our company that they gladly pay our way?

And they don't pay for our gowns, makeup, or hair for our relatives' weddings!
And they expect us to want to contribute to a group gift, namely a Sheva Brachos!
Don't they realize that THEY are supposed to be giving money and not US?
I mean they only paid $20k or so for the wedding and extras! They got off cheap! Now they should really make up for it by making sure we have no more than regular expenses.

(Sorry amother Milk, not really picking on you... just as the MIL in a few years I.Y.H. it gets pretty overwhelming...)

amother

Papayawhip

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:01 pm

amother [ Chestnut ] wrote:

Ouch.

I guess we’ll have to switch to pareve only and stop sending to camp when we get up to shidduchim so we don’t get blamed for giving jewelry which is too small for a Bas Mitzvah girl, whatever that means. I’m assuming it means that although it fits, it’s considered too delicate for a kallah. So much for jewelry being timeless and an investment!

I think my post wasn’t super clear. It’s really all in the attitude and communication. When I say too small I mean it’s physically tiny not just dainty.

They’re the type that will get a standing rib roast and travel to israel and send to camp two halves. So they are not wealthy but they spend on other things that are social “norms” or even extras.

Idk. I think it’s also about a whole picture - how do u present it. She would have been fine with nothing beyond the ring the rest just seemed off. It’s also been a bit of a pattern so I guess I view it in that lense- they didn’t pay anything for the wedding and weren’t asked to (my parents aren’t wealthy but it was their first wedding and they managed to pull it off) . They didn’t send any sort of flowers or gift when he came for shabbos, nothing by her birthday etc.

Over the years it’s the same with her kids. Other grandkids will get bigger birthday gifts etc but because somehow they perceive this couple to be my parents “problem” they are really not giving towards them.

amother

Milk

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:03 pm

@amother chestnut:
I'm feeling a little bit under attack.
I did not use the word "only" in my earlier post. I guess you are referring to the attitude you perceived from what I wrote.
To clarify, I am thankful for my kallah gifts. At the same time, my disappointment regarding the bracelet is valid. I have never said a word about it except for anonymously on this forum. My pearls aren't used and it seems a bit of a pointless gift but the intentions behind them were sincere and that's what counts.
Regarding the singer, that was my parents' choice. I did not expect it. They chose the singer and paid for it. They were actually going to surprise us all but during my engagement they accidentally forwarded me an email with the information.
Feeling frustrated/overwhelmed with wedding expenses as a married sibling is also valid. I know that in many communities the parents help pay for these expenses but at the same time there are many that can't, and that's okay too. But the expenses can still be overwhelming.
My sister in law who is from a wealthy family once mentioned somewhat flippantly to me that she wouldn't go to her husband's parents for yomtif unless they paid. I don't agree with that attitude. At the same time, it is valid to express that traveling expenses are also a big deal.
I totally get that you may be feeling overwhelmed from the other side as you near the mother in law stage of life. But don't take it out on me.

amother

Papayawhip

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:04 pm

amother [ Chestnut ] wrote:

As a young couple I was very resentful that my in-laws expected us to host aka pay for Sheva b after we spent so much coming to the wedding. There wasn’t any way to cut corners as we weren’t from there and it had to be in a restaurant. Didn’t foster good will.

You don’t have to pay for us but don’t impose expectations on us either.

amother

Papayawhip

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:11 pm

amother [ Petunia ] wrote:

If it's that important to a girl she needs to be honest with herself. Date people from more lavish families or look for a husband already employed.
Or wait a few years before dating, build up some savings, and indulge yourself with the jewelry you've been dreaming of. My 2 older single friends weren't extravagant but at a certain point treated themselves to a nice bracelet or necklace or whatever. Because they treated themselves, they didn't feel deprived and by the time they got married they were honestly able to say, no they didn't need or want a lot of the things that the average young kallah expects/would feel weird if she didn't get it like everyone else. And if they wanted an extra nice wig or wedding earrings or such, they didn't feel guilty that their parents or in laws had to extend themselves--they gladly paid for it themselves.

I was replying to a post that was asking. What standard the boy expects. If they are yeshivish in the sense that he’s happy with no or minimal support. No watch or Shas and a super simple wedding I think he’ll find a girl that’s ok with a cz ring.

But if you have expectations on the girls side I think it’s ok for the girl to expect things as well.

amother

Chestnut

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:25 pm

I know, money is such a sensitive subject. Especially when you don't have it.

But it seems that the expectation is that the in-laws HAVE TO have it, and if not they should be cutting down on their standard of living to provide it to the newlyweds.

I know what it feels like to pay for travel. It's a big deal for me too, even though I already have teens. I paid over $500 to visit my parents recently, and DH is about to put down $1,000 or $1,500 to visit his. If you knew what kind of debt I'm in, you'd understand that this is a major deal.

I know how hard it is to pay for your own gowns. And those of all of your kids. And hair. And makeup. I just did my own makeup the last few weddings because I can't afford more. And left my (hand-me-down) shaitel as is.

But it leaves me defeated to know that no matter what, whatever I give my DIL one day I.Y.H. will never be enough. I won't be able to get enough gifts, enough choices, fancy enough.

They will judge us for having a newer car (very justified in our case) and not prioritizing them. They will judge us for buying salmon for DH (who is on a very limited diet). They will be upset that I send my kids to camp both months (I have good reason for it).

Never mind that during that Sukkos and Pesach where they are upset about paying their own tickets (despite it being cheaper than making your own Yom Tov), we're probably still paying off their wedding.

amother

Bottlebrush

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:29 pm

amother [ Papayawhip ] wrote:

I feel like a key issue in this scenario is communicating honestly. I hope that if you told your parents “Ma, I wish we could host/pay for a Sheva Brachos, but with all the expenses from travelling and the wedding, it’s really not something we can afford” you would be patur.

The same goes for the people who are complaining that their parents don’t pay for tickets for YT. You could just say “sorry we can’t come” and make YT at home. Your parents can then offer but there’s no obligation on anyones part.

amother

Cornsilk

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:49 pm

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

Do Israelis count? Standards are so different here lol

I'm American, and married an Israeli.
And boy are the "standards" different. I didnt get machzorim, or silver candlesticks, or a bracelet, or a sheital...

My in laws are typical Israeli chareidi, they do not have the extras for anything. I know thye took out loans to pay for my ring (real) and wedding (we did 50/50). I am married almost 2 years and time has helped me to stop feeling upset over what I didnt get (when everyone around you gets xyz and you get abc it doesnt make you feel special).

I dont get birthday gifts from my in laws, or a gift after my baby. My friends all got a charm bracelet after they had a baby, or a ring for graduation. It hurts me when I dont get that. Im really trying to focus on being sameach bechelko.

My 3 israeli SILs all got cz rings. Im the only one who got real. I am grateful for my ring. I look at it everyday and I feel beautiful and regal wearing it.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Thu, Jun 16 2022, 6:56 pm

Married almost 40 years BH'. I know I shouldn't comment because the laws and ways have changed but here goes. (Things were sooo much cheaper back then!). My parents gave us enough for a very ''Mechubad'' wedding. ( about 150 pple sitting to eat, boys came just for dancing, drinks and a little food were served). Music was great. pictures were great. no video. I received jewelry from DH as he worked Bein Hazmanim for a few years. No Leichter, No Machzorim with my name. A Car??? Ha. BH' my DH learned for a few years and we were truly thankful for what we had. Life was so much more simple in those years.