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S/O Question for yeshivish newly marrieds
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amother
Chestnut


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 4:26 am
imaima wrote:
I also think that the culture of mutual gift-giving generates good spirit between both parties. If both sides decide to forego presents they will have saved the money but lost s chance to foster a relationship between the two families necessary to help a solid ground fpr the marriage

I don't think anyone was suggesting to forego presents altogether. The question was more about what is considered "enough." And apparently that answer rests in the $10,000 range. And the wedding (despite being paid for fully by the parents) is not counted.
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:27 am
Sad. Why put extra enormous burdens on the parents that most obviously can’t afford. Where is the menchlichtkeit? Doesn’t this breed resentment when the in laws- and siblings have to forgo necessities to pay for the kallahs pretty presents?
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amother
Winterberry


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:29 am
amother [ Diamond ] wrote:
Sad. Why put extra enormous burdens on the parents that most obviously can’t afford. Where is the menchlichtkeit? Doesn’t this breed resentment when the in laws- and siblings have to forgo necessities to pay for the kallahs pretty presents?


The whole culture puts pressure on young women to afford supporting her husband in learning, and on her parents to help them out....so what's a few basic gifts? (and no, I'm not talking about 20K worth of gifts.)
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amother
Chestnut


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:35 am
amother [ Winterberry ] wrote:
The whole culture puts pressure on young women to afford supporting her husband in learning, and on her parents to help them out....so what's a few basic gifts? (and no, I'm not talking about 20K worth of gifts.)

So how much are you talking about? Because someone who got just basic gifts has been holding onto resentment for three decades, and others were upset that the jewelry they received was not lavish or luxurious enough.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:35 am
DVOM wrote:
These wedding and newlywed finance posts are terrifying.

I can't wrap my head around these numbers. I don't understand these expectations. They make no sense to me. You all have 10-20 THOUSAND dollars per child to spend on GIFTS? Who makes that kind of money? My future daughters in law might look at my sending a younger child to camp or serving pot roast on shabbos and decide I don't love them, because that money should rightfully have been spent on bigger and better diamonds for her?

When I got married 14 years ago, my parents bought me a wig and a hat fall, rented me a gorgeous gown, and made me a wedding. They chipped in with me to buy a bedroom set. My grandfather bought me a bookcase. My husband bought me a skinny gold bracelet with some diamond chips that he later told me cost 800$. I nearly passed out from joy when he gave it to me. My in laws bought me a diamond ring that cost 2000$, a bit less than a carot in a plain gold setting. My in laws paid for beautiful brass and enamel candlesticks that guests at my home still comments on, 400$. I remember a big bouquet of sunflowers at my engagement party that were from my in laws. I had told my then-fiance that I love sunflowers. I was very touched that they remembered. Not sure the cost. They bought me a necklace of small pink and purple pearls that my husband gave me at the wedding. My husband and I pooled our savings to buy a table and chairs, a recliner, and all the other stuff we needed to set up house. We both already owned cars.

Let's say in laws spent 3,000$ on gifts for me? Is that not enough love? When did we jot down a dollar value and a gift checklist and title it: Now I Know My In Laws Love Me? When did getting married become a competitive sport, the winner being the girl who's in laws can get the biggest diamonds? If those are the rules of the game, we've already lost. No way my husband and I could compete in those races.


The gifts you got are identical to mine pretty much except my candlesticks were silver and my ring was less.

Bracelets are typically in $800-1000
Range even today.

But your gifts were slightly more then 3000 - I don’t want to nitpick just show how hard it is to imagine expenses and they are typically more then we imagine.

Ring 2000
Bracelet 800
Candlesticks 400
Pearls ?????
Sunflowers ????
Ring under chuppah ???
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amother
Lotus


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:38 am
DVOM wrote:
These wedding and newlywed finance posts are terrifying.

I can't wrap my head around these numbers. I don't understand these expectations. They make no sense to me. You all have 10-20 THOUSAND dollars per child to spend on GIFTS? Who makes that kind of money? My future daughters in law might look at my sending a younger child to camp or serving pot roast on shabbos and decide I don't love them, because that money should rightfully have been spent on bigger and better diamonds for her?

When I got married 14 years ago, my parents bought me a wig and a hat fall, rented me a gorgeous gown, and made me a wedding. They chipped in with me to buy a bedroom set. My grandfather bought me a bookcase. My husband bought me a skinny gold bracelet with some diamond chips that he later told me cost 800$. I nearly passed out from joy when he gave it to me. My in laws bought me a diamond ring that cost 2000$, a bit less than a carot in a plain gold setting. My in laws paid for beautiful brass and enamel candlesticks that guests at my home still comments on, 400$. I remember a big bouquet of sunflowers at my engagement party that were from my in laws. I had told my then-fiance that I love sunflowers. I was very touched that they remembered. Not sure the cost. They bought me a necklace of small pink and purple pearls that my husband gave me at the wedding. My husband and I pooled our savings to buy a table and chairs, a recliner, and all the other stuff we needed to set up house. We both already owned cars.

Let's say in laws spent 3,000$ on gifts for me? Is that not enough love? When did we jot down a dollar value and a gift checklist and title it: Now I Know My In Laws Love Me? When did getting married become a competitive sport, the winner being the girl who's in laws can get the biggest diamonds? If those are the rules of the game, we've already lost. No way my husband and I could compete in those races.


You got ALOT more than I did.
I am still resentful, bc I saw money spent on everything else.
I would have felt very loved had I gotten what you did.
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amother
Winterberry


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:40 am
amother [ Chestnut ] wrote:
So how much are you talking about? Because someone who got just basic gifts has been holding onto resentment for three decades, and others were upset that the jewelry they received was not lavish or luxurious enough.


That is their own issue, then, that they need to work to overcome.

I would think a basic breakdown would be something like:

Diamond ring - 2-2.5 K
Bracelet - 1K
necklace in yichud room (pearls are out) - 1K
Leichter (not sure how much to be honest)

Probably some flowers for the Kallah (vort, Shabbos Kallah)

Plus whatever the boy's side contributes to the cost of the wedding (I've heard it's 1/3 and Kallah does 2/3) and of course whatever they spend on their own clothes, etc.....and outfitting of the Chassan himself.
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amother
Chestnut


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:43 am
Ring under chuppah was $100 in my day.
I got a necklace for $500.
Earrings probably about $75.
Silver leichter maybe $600?
Leather siddur $100
A few other seforim maybe $150

No pearls or diamonds. I don't remember flowers but maybe they did get. So about $1500 of gifts.

But they also paid for half of the chasunah, set up our apartment (hand-me-down furniture but they took care of the shlepping), and later (this was very unexpected) helped us get a used car. And they showed me in many ways that they were happy I joined the family.
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amother
Lightblue


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 5:59 am
I'm chasidish, married 12 years. I was a very mature not materialistic girl & ideologically was ok with less gifts. But in my heart I had a hard time digesting it. Even now when I can easily afford to buy myself those gifts it still gives me a pang when I think about it. It would help if my in-laws would be loving & warm, but they are very reserved.

For reference, I received cz ring, no bracelet, pearl necklace & earrings - less $$ than was standard ( which they let me chose & still love till today. In the store there was almost nothing to chose in their chosen price range but at the end got something I love). I was so happy & appreciative for each gift . But having grown up seeing my parents choosing diamonds for their dil's with such care I can't say I wasn't a teeny tiny resentful.

I think it's less the gifts & more how they didn't go out of their way to make me feel welcomed. & to answer op's question, I would be so grateful to get the option of only getting a real ring & that's it.
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amother
Milk


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 6:46 am
Can we also mention that in addition to paying for most of the wedding and promising financial support to the couple, the kallah's parents pay for gifts for the chosson too. Typically a kiddush cup, shas, sometimes a watch, silver menorah, etc.
From what I understand, there is supposed to be gift giving during the engagement and in the yichud room and it's not one sided.
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amother
Winterberry


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 6:48 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
Can we also mention that in addition to paying for most of the wedding and promising financial support to the couple, the kallah's parents pay for gifts for the chosson too. Typically a kiddush cup, shas, sometimes a watch, silver menorah, etc.
From what I understand, there is supposed to be gift giving during the engagement and in the yichud room and it's not one sided.


It is not typical though for girls to give a gift in the yichud room.

As my niece said - "I'M the present".
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amother
Milk


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 6:52 am
I gave my husband a silver menorah in the yichud room. I've never heard of it being once sided in the yichud room.
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amother
Diamond


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 9:05 am
amother [ Milk ] wrote:
Can we also mention that in addition to paying for most of the wedding and promising financial support to the couple, the kallah's parents pay for gifts for the chosson too. Typically a kiddush cup, shas, sometimes a watch, silver menorah, etc.
From what I understand, there is supposed to be gift giving during the engagement and in the yichud room and it's not one sided.

There are often three sides giving the gifts. The chossons side. The Kallahs side. And the tzedaka the families are taking to lavish gifts on the young couple. The money spend on the gift is unavailable for other needs so the parents turn to tzedaka. Yad Batya Likallah, TDL, other gemachs. Sometimes financial help.

Parents spending 10k on gifts for the chosson/kallah and asking the school for tuition breaks so the cost of their kids schooling is covered by tzedaka.

If parents are well to death and have a pile of money in the mattress go for it, but it’s sad that it became such a necessity that our young couples are ok with tzedaka covering their lavish gifts.
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amother
Milk


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 9:48 am
So if a change can be made, which chosson/kallah gifts should be eliminated? I suppose the siddur, machzarim and kallah bracelet are technically not necessary. Should kallahs be responsible for paying for certain things that chosson side pays for, like leichter, engagement ring?

I hear that parents literally cannot afford these gifts. It must be very painful and frustrating.
It's not just gifts though. It's the standard for chasunahs in general, what kallahs are expected to have when they get married, such as sheva brachos dresses, shaitels, a fully set up apartment, financial support and tons of random extras.
Frum culture has tremendous standards.
I've heard of gemachs and organizations that help pay for these expenses but why does it need to get to that? Clearly this lifestyle and these standards are not sustainable for too many and something needs to change.
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amother
Amaranthus


 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 11:33 am
AlwaysGrateful wrote:
Please only respond if you both view yourself as yeshivish, and if you're less than three years post-wedding. This is about the period of your engagement.

Would you be offended if your in-laws did not give you a set of machzorim or a tehillim engraved with your name?
Would you be upset if they didn't buy you a leichter or bought you an inexpensive one, maybe a small one that cost 100-200 dollars, but not silver or anything?
Would you feel ignored if they didn't buy you a birthday present?
If your future in-laws sat down with you and explained that money was tight, and so while they would really like to buy you a beautiful diamond ring and diamond bracelet, they can either buy you a ring with small real diamond or a fake one, and the bracelet will have to be an inexpensive one (or if this was not discussed, what if your husband had simply presented these to you instead of the really expensive stuff)?

And my last question is...since many yeshivish couples start off in kollel, and are intending to live frugally for the next little while at least, how can you reconcile doing that while your parents/in-laws are putting themselves into major debt in order to buy you all of these gifts?

(Full disclosure: I am yeshivish but do not yet have kids who are shidduch age, just younger teens and down. But when I got married, I strongly considered asking for a cubic Z ring because it felt so wrong for me to ask my husband (who was paying for it) to spend all of this money on something so relatively unimportant when I knew that our years in kollel would depend on how long we could swing it financially. I only didn't ask because all of my friends and family -- including those who were yeshivish, MO, JPF, etc -- said it might offend him and wasn't worth it.)

[ETA this originally included questions about a car and shaitel, but I took those out because they were derailing the thread from my original question.]


I'm chiming in. From a large yeshivish family, but wealthy. We are mostly girls. Recently-ish married.

We are all married into families with very different expectations of wealth. My parents were firmly opposed to setting unrealistic pressure on their mechutanim, despite being able to afford gifts.

Here's what they did: what they bought, they bought quality. All my sister in laws recieved really, really nice rings, and I think a beautiful pair of earrings. For the sons in law, I think a lower end watch, plus taalisim. Any child that had an issue with this was welcome to put their own money towards extras.

After the wedding they gave, and continue to give, lots of gifts to their children in law. Sefarim, jewelry on anniversaries and birthdays, high end pieces of silver. If you can afford to give your kids-in-law nice gifts, this is a great way to do it. The mechutunim don't feel pressure to reciprocate, and you're not piling up expenses at a time where the budget is stressed.

I speak for most of my friends- I think less is more. Most of my friends would prefer a nicer ring over 3-4 pieces of jewelry.
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Rubies




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 11:41 am
amother [ Amaranthus ] wrote:
I'm chiming in. From a large yeshivish family, but wealthy. We are mostly girls. Recently-ish married.

We are all married into families with very different expectations of wealth. My parents were firmly opposed to setting unrealistic pressure on their mechutanim, despite being able to afford gifts.

Here's what they did: what they bought, they bought quality. All my sister in laws recieved really, really nice rings, and I think a beautiful pair of earrings. For the sons in law, I think a lower end watch, plus taalisim. Any child that had an issue with this was welcome to put their own money towards extras.

After the wedding they gave, and continue to give, lots of gifts to their children in law. Sefarim, jewelry on anniversaries and birthdays, high end pieces of silver. If you can afford to give your kids-in-law nice gifts, this is a great way to do it. The mechutunim don't feel pressure to reciprocate, and you're not piling up expenses at a time where the budget is stressed.

I speak for most of my friends- I think less is more. Most of my friends would prefer a nicer ring over 3-4 pieces of jewelry.


I've never heard of expensive gifts given after marriage but I think it's brilliant!
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AlwaysGrateful




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 17 2022, 12:14 pm
Is this mentality better out of town??

I think that's my last question on this thread. Feeling very discouraged.

And the reason this question focused on the girls is because I wanted to ask whether people would really be offended. I can't ask young newlymarried men on this site, because there aren't any.

(And also because my older kids are boys, so they'll be my first experience with this.)
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amother
Oatmeal


 

Post Sat, Jun 18 2022, 9:00 pm
My in-laws bought me nothing. Did it offend me? Absolutely. I have two older brothers and saw all of the gifts (nothing too over the top, typical engagement gifts) that my parents generously gave their wives and expected no different from my in laws, but my husband bought me everything on his own. The reason it really offended me was because money isn’t tight for them, they just strongly believe that if a child is getting married they should be able to pay for their own things. My husband bought me my bracelet, ring, machzorim, and our car when we were engaged. BH my grandmother bought me leichture. It’s very hard seeing my friends get married and hearing about them going shopping with their mother in laws for various presents. My husband is in kollel and I work part time and I’m in school, BH my parents are very generous and give us $1000 a month that we use towards rent and I’m so grateful for that, but when I think about how much more money we would have in savings if my husbands parents would have just paid for my gifts (like most “yeshivish” parents do) I get very upset. Also, as soon as I found out my husband was paying himself I insisted that he shouldn’t get me anything, but he’s stubborn. Only compromise was that the Diamond in my ring is a lab grown Diamond. Only positive of the situation is that it definitely makes me appreciate the gifts he gave me a lot more
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