Shpitzelech | Imamother

amother

Leaf

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:02 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

Right, and that's exactly the problem.

Society's norms. Man-made standards.

Ask yourself the question: What happens if someone choose to cover differently than her family?

If she choose to stop wearing a tichel and put on a sheitel? All of a sudden, she is treated as a pariah. A sinner. An evil person.

At that point, man-made standards become more important than anything. More important than the person, more important than her personal connection with the Aibershter.

You know it's true.

It's a lethal frum mindset that pushes people off the derech.

You keep it if you'd like, or you can go beyond your box and think in a more G-dly way, realizing how dangerous these frum rules are.

Have a great week.

And so what? That is not the point of this thread and you know it.

Not_in_my_town

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:06 am

amother [ Leaf ] wrote:

And so what? That is not the point of this thread and you know it.

Who cares?

You know the slogan, "If you see something, say something."

The "levels" of headcovering came under discussion, and something had to be said.

Go digest the concept. Give it time to settle. See where you're going wrong.

amother

Viola

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:09 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

You responded to me on the previous page. I wear a plain uncovered sheitel so you're preaching to the choir here.

I was asking within the groups who wear such headcoverings, what do they consider it.

I don't think we all need to hear long philosophical posts about the ills of society norms in a thread asking for practical advice. It's almost as bad as the poster who came onto every sheitel thread and ranted against wigs. It's not the right place for this discussion. Open a spinoff.

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:28 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

Of course there are different levels and standards of head covering. It's silly to say that not. This does NOT mean that the women that wears a wig is looked down upon and as less than as the women that wears a wrapunzal or shpitzel.

mastermom

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:30 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

You've been taught that it's an upgrade in tznuis. That doesn't mean it's actually true.

There are those who wear a burka and said it is an upgrade in tznuis. I believe you would disagree.

The goal of this form of tznuis is to simply cover more.

Is that truly tznuis?

It doesn't smack of truth. It seems to be a very superficial understanding of tznuis.

Tznuis means to behave appropriately for the situation, to cover intimate areas except for at intimate times, in an intimate setting with the person you are to be intimate with.

That goes for the body, as well as the emotions. A person can be fully covered and still behave immodestly, even with only a gesture of the eyes. They can cover more but be allowing someone access to themselves in an intimate way when they shouldn't.

Tznuis is not about stripping a woman of her beauty; it is about preserving intimacy for the appropriate situation. If a woman dresses in a way that makes her intimate being a free-for-all, that is not tznuis. If she dresses in a refined manner in which the appropriate areas are covered, that is tznuis.

This is not tznius related.

Covering one's hair for a married woman is a halacha independent of tznius. A wig, according to most chassidish poskim is b'dieved. There is no room for argument that in this area of Halacha, the shpitzel is definitely an upgrade.
For various reasons it may not be the right thing for most of us to do and it's okay. It doesn't make us bad Jews. We can still acknowledge that it is more mehudar without it being a reflection on us. We each have our own journeys.

I'm really sorry for your situation. I wish you clarity in your personal journey.

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:30 am

Not_in_my_town wrote:

This has nothing to do with this thread. You can start a spin-off to rant about the problems in our communities.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:34 am

Im a satmar shpitzel wearer. I have some elder yerushalmi relatives and they wear only a tichel or upgebinden. So guess it is more of a satmar thing.
And imo, a shpitzel is an upgrade. But that doesnt make me look down at non shpitzel wearers. (If anything, its the other way around) Non of my satmar freinds wear a shpitzel.

As a btw. I read (in a non satmar paper) that just like a man wouldnt cover their head with a wig. So does covering your hair with hair (wig) not make sense.
Tomatoes are welcome.

amother

Teal

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:42 am

amother [ Lightpink ] wrote:

Right. So my question is, if a Satmer women wear aroopgebinden vs a shpitzel, is it an upgrade for her?

I don't actually know anyone who did this, but on RH and YK Satmar women wear a tichel without a shpitzel - so yes it is an upgrade. There's also an "imgedrivelte" shpitzel which kinda looks like a black strip, not hair-like and that's an upgrade too.

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:45 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Pupa also wears just a tichel on RH and Yom Kippur. Many women from different sects do.

GLUE

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 1:45 am

amother [ Seablue ] wrote:

As a btw. I read (in a non satmar paper) that just like a man wouldnt cover their head with a wig. So does covering your hair with hair (wig) not make sense.
Tomatoes are welcome.

Sign Sign Sign

Why does a women cover her hair?
Why does a man were a yomika?

A man wear's a yomika to show that he believes in a higher power. Wearing a hair covered yomika does not show that, he does not look like he is telling the world that he believes in Hashem.

A women covers her hair for herself. She is telling herself that the part of the body that is the most public part is not for public view. It does not matter what she covers it with only that a women knows that her hair is covered.

I hope I explained it some what clear.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 8:49 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

A shpitzel is allowed in all Satmar shuls during RH and YK and most who wear shpitzlech as their normal headgear during the year would also wear it during RH and YK although there may be some exceptions who might decide to not wear their shpitzel and just a tichel during those times.

The reason for the majority of Satmar women who wear just a tichel and not a shpitzel in shul during RH /YK is because they are not shpitzel wearers to begin with and there is no requirement to wear one.
The requirement is to cover the entire head with a tichel. Absolutely no sheitel underneath.

amother

Opal

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 9:42 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Im a shpitzle wearer as well and in my childhood shul they did not allow shpitzle at all only a tichel! after I got married I went to that shul for shofer and I wore my shpitzel with a tichel and we got a call after y"t that I can't come like that next time.

amother

Opal

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 9:45 am

amother [ Lightpink ] wrote:

Right. So my question is, if a Satmer women wear aroopgebinden vs a shpitzel, is it an upgrade for her?

In my circle - in boro park it is considered an upgrade but you dont really see that here... in israel it is the norm. You won't see that many with a shpitzle...

amother

Opal

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 9:48 am

And I don't feel proud of my shpitzel at all. I did it because my parents expected that and my siblings wear as well. My father considered a wig the biggest aveirah! I respect all women and I do not feel like I am more holy than women with a wig. But unfortunately there are women with a tichel that feel they will be the first to greet Moshiach... Seriously!!

amother

Tulip

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 9:53 am

amother [ Opal ] wrote:

That's what happens when people are misinformed and not knowledgeable. The Rebbe clearly made this tekana for sheitel wearers. Reasons become forgotten and standards change, when things are done by rote. I can add many more things to this list of have-to's that have no backing. Perhaps in a spin off.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 9:54 am

amother [ Opal ] wrote:

That is interesting. Many years ago I also davened in Satmar during RH/YK and I have seen plenty shpitzlech in shul. That was in the big Beis Medrash on Rodney Street. In fact, I even inquired about it at the time and was told that shpitzlech were allowed.

To be honest that was more than 3 decades ago... Could be the rules have changed since or is it only at your particular shul?