Ds refuses time out-ideas??

amother

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 2:52 am

When ds gets angry he starts acting out physically, hurting whoever is around him. Dh, me and kids. I tell him when acting that way he needs to go "time out" till calms down. But he refuses to go and continues to hurt everyone.

I feel so ashamed/ feel abusive what I do. I hate doing it but dont know any other solutions so was hoping someone here can help me out.

He's 12 (I know he's big for that), so I can't just lift him and put him somewhere. I literally drag him to my garage (while he tries holding on to the door frame, chair... to prevent me from doing that) I lock him into garage and tell him that as soon as he's ready to behave he can come back out (which can take a while for him to admit)

I feel so abusive doing that. But I can't let him hurt my other kids either.

Any ideas??

amother

Diamond

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 2:57 am

You'll earn a lot by taking blimie hellers course...Google her unconditional parenting

amother

Blueberry

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 3:00 am

You don’t sound abusive. A 12 year old should absolutely know better. At that age he can really hurt someone.

I don’t have any advice.

But you’re definitely not abusive.

amother

Crimson

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 3:57 am

DS was a lot like this. I would sometimes take him out to the porch and lock him out of the house. I feel and felt terrible, but I had no idea what else to do.

I gained a lot from the Nurtured Heart approach and the Explosive Child book.

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 5:49 am

Can you put everyone else in "time out" instead? Have them locked away from him until he calms down? You may benefit from professional help with anger management.

Zehava

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 5:59 am

Not abusive. Personally I feel more comfortable locking a kid out of the house if they do this than locking them in. Feels more like I’m keeping everyone safe than putting him in jail.
12 is really old for this. At this age I’d get professional help and call in backup when it happens. A 12 year old boy can inflict serious harm if they’re not in control of themselves.

Zehava

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:00 am

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

You'll earn a lot by taking blimie hellers course...Google her unconditional parenting

All due respect her course is not for this scenario. She teaches a lot from NVC nonviolent communication, and would agree with this approach. It’s called protective use of force. Op is obligated to protect everyone else from getting hurt.

imaima

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Whoa
Time out is not for 12 y.o.
I would speak to an expert with proper credentials.
How is the school dealing with it?

Jewishmom8

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:22 am

you need a professional.
you need real help.

imasinger

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:32 am

Does this child have a diagnosis? If not, have you investigated the possibility? A 12 year old showing that level of impulsivity and irritability should be evaluated. That being said, some of what has been mentioned above can help.

Blimie Heller is I believe based on Nurtured Heart.

It's pretty effective.

A quick summary. It's important to follow the steps in order, and not skip any.

1. You can't do anything without a relationship. Start by following the effective steps to reestablish one -- first by coming further into a child's world by making time every day to note, with significant interest, but without approval or disapproval, what s/he is doing and talking about -- like a sports commentator. Then, after that's solid, add a regular time of undivided attention, where for 10 or 15 minutes a day, you engage with the child, watching or doing whatever non screen activity s/he likes, again, without any approval, disapproval, help, or criticism, just lots of interest.

2. After a while, this process can warm the relationship to the point where you can begin commenting with praise on behavior you appreciate, and having that be meaningful. Try to do so at least once a day.

3. At this point, you can add a meaningful reward for targeted actions. Talk to him about possible big and small rewards he might like to earn. Intangible -- later bedtime, a trip to a desired location, an activity where he can invite a friend -- is better than tangible. Choose the behavior challenge you most want to see improved, set up offer an easy challenge. (For example, if his room is a mess, can he clean one small thing a day, 3 days in a row?). Make sure the reward is something he wants, and that it's commensurate with effort. (You don't get a new car for putting your socks in the hamper for one week, but you also don't get a trip to the zoo if you could care less about going to the zoo.). Set up a points chart, reward jar, whatever. The goal is often one easily obtainable small reward, one medium challenge and reward, and one big one, that's within his abilities, but takes some time and work.

4. Once the incentive plan is in place and working, you're ready to initiate timeout plans. Explain a phrasing for a simple rule ("everyone needs to stay/feel safe", or "no hurting people or possessions", or whatever). Make sure the family understands that the rule applies to everyone.

Choose a timeout spot. Not a bedroom, with tons of distractions, and no way to see what's happening. Stairs work well, or the corner of a room. Practice ahead of time, with each member of the family. There is absolutely no attention given to the person in timeout, except to be sure they're doing it. Set a good visual timer, where the kid can see how long is left. Explain that there is a reward for immediate compliance, no matter what they've done . Unsuccessful compliance means a restart of the timer. Successful timeouts are followed by thanks and praise for doing the timeout well, no rehashing of the incident. Even if it takes 5 tries, the completed timeout, where there was immediate compliance in going, and the kid stayed the full time, gets untainted praise, and points on a chart.

The key factor that makes this different from where things are now is that the kid now believes you care, wants your positive feedback, and is willing to work to earn it plus rewards.

This is a brief summary. It's worth it to read a book or join a program for fuller guidance.

Momafewx

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:54 am

Yes op, I think that's your only option now. Seek him out when he is not in tantrum mode and talk to him. Tell him why you bring him to the garage and ask him if he has any better ideas. Keep with your stance to keep violence out the house but he may have a less demeaning method.
But mainly: Give him tools to use for when he is upset. Tell him you see he's struggling, you want him to conquer this fight and learn how to use words to get what he needs.

amother

Valerian

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 6:55 am

I'm confused. How were the last 10 yrs or so raising him?

amother

Viola

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:04 am

You're 100% right that he can't hurt other people.
12 is very late to be still learning this lesson.
Is this something new or has it been going on all along just now he's bigger it's harder?

amother

Latte

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:08 am

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

I'm confused. How were the last 10 yrs or so raising him?

I have a similarity aged child with a similar problem. We took care of it when he was younger, and it became a tendency that he successfully managed most of the time- and when he didn't, we carried him to time out. Then covid and lockdown came and it all came back, and worse. All the experts I spoke to said that we should just do whatever we needed to to get by and we'd figure out whatever didn't disappear on it's own after lockdown. We're still dealing with it.

I really wonder about Nurtured Heart. It sounds great as an overall approach. But a parent dealing with this needs to be told how to deal with these outbursts while dealing with the earlier stages of the approach- not just "do whatever right now and we'll get to that later, after you've got the relationship set."

amother

Valerian

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:12 am

Why would lockdown make things worse? Was your success based partially on him being out of the house with a steady dull schedule to keep him out of trouble?
Lock down was also an amazing opportunity for bonding and exploring new passions.

Zehava

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:31 am

Blimie is not at all based on nurtured heart. Gentle parenting is in many ways in direct opposition to nurtured heart. Just wanted to clarify that.

amother

Clover

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:45 am

If he is capable, you can sit down and brainstorm with him a better option. This can include how to avoid getting to that point, as well as how to successfully manage once he's past the point of controlling himself.

If he isn't capable then you need professional support asap.

It cannot continue this way. Soon he will be bigger than you and then what. In my experience, right after bar mitzvah boys majorly downgrade in maturity for about a year and then suddenly become pleasant to be around. So I would start taking care of this immediately.

amother

Clear

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:55 am

I take me and my other children and lock us into a room. Aggressive dc hates that and will generally de escalate. Trying to get them in a timeout always escalated things.

On the backend, we are constantly working on addressing brain inflammation, because for us that’s the root cause of the behavior.

amother

Camellia

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 7:56 am

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

Not sure what your intentions are but you sound extremely judgmental. Obviously in her case it wasn't.

imasinger

Sun, Jun 19 2022, 8:03 am

Zehava wrote:

Blimie is not at all based on nurtured heart. Gentle parenting is in many ways in direct opposition to nurtured heart. Just wanted to clarify that.

My mistake, thanks for clarifying. What I described was Nurtured Heart.