Home

Cons to living OOT?
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Moving/ Relocating


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Electricblue
 

Post Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:54 pm
Pick a larger OOT community, I.e. Chicago, Miami, etc
Back to top

amother




Cinnamon
 

Post Tue, Jun 21 2022, 10:00 pm
amother [ Burntblack ] wrote:
Quote:
Even though I have posted in this thread about cons, I really love my smaller OOT community. I've lived here for over a decade. It is friendly and warm, not materialistic, and there is so much opportunity to get involved and make a difference in a small community. Please don't get the wrong impression from some of our posts OP.

Yes, 100% agree.
I have my gripes about the education here, but there are many other people that it doesn't bother.
Putting that aside, I live in an amazing community. You can't compare the quality of life you're getting here to anything "in town", it is just such a different way of living. And ultimately that's what pulls people to move here and stay



Triple ditto. As much as I think the school in my city is not particularly good, and I do have some challenges living here, I think it's a great place to live. I think it's an amazing place to raise children. I'm from a large in-town community in NY, my husband is from a large community somewhere else, but neither of us have any real interest in living anywhere but here!

Every place has pros and cons, and for us (personally) the cons of living here definetly DO NOT outweigh the many, many, positive aspects.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Jun 21 2022, 10:13 pm
amother [ Electricblue ] wrote:
Pick a larger OOT community, I.e. Chicago, Miami, etc


I’m in one of these communities and it’s a great middle ground. I don’t feel I lack anything available in the NY/NJ area but it’s a little cheaper and not as hashkafically rigid.
Back to top

amother




Poppy
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 5:00 pm
Fewer resources for special needs kids, for sure. Now, depending on the state the public resources may still be good (nothing is like NY but there is better and worse) but the schools have much much less to offer. You're often stuck between "we'll try!" (and they will, but they won't do it well) or "we can't" and your child will be outside the Jewish schools. It won't usually be because they are being mean; the resources just don't exist.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 5:05 pm
amother [ Poppy ] wrote:
Fewer resources for special needs kids, for sure. Now, depending on the state the public resources may still be good (nothing is like NY but there is better and worse) but the schools have much much less to offer. You're often stuck between "we'll try!" (and they will, but they won't do it well) or "we can't" and your child will be outside the Jewish schools. It won't usually be because they are being mean; the resources just don't exist.


I agree. I am in Chicago which is midsized and pretty expensive (Still cheaper then NY/NJ) but my kids are very well served here in terms of special ed services. We looked into smaller communities that would be cheaper and or had vouchers and my kids would get a fraction of what they get here. Its a real issue.
Back to top

amother




Ebony
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 5:06 pm
dena613 wrote:
Often

Less experienced rabbonim,daas torah


Sorry. This is a gross generalization. There are many esteemed rabbanim who live out of town.
Back to top

amother




Daphne
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 6:01 pm
Personally I find that there's more of a need for services in NYC because the classes are enormous and the standards quite high. All of my children get services because they expect so much from the children. My son gets overwhelmed in school so he needs more 1:1 help. His cousins are oot, 10-15 children in a class instead of 20-25. It does matter. And having assistants doesn't really help, it only helps the teacher.
Back to top

Matisse




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 6:32 pm
It's interesting to me to read all of these responses. Moving your family is a huge decision. I recommend spending a Shabbos in the community/communities you are considering. Make your plans so that your family can go to the school(s) while they are in session.

We are BT's who became frum about 20 years ago. On our block, we have these amazing families - the Rosh Hayeshiva, frum navy psychologist, our day school menahel and two frum professional families. If we lived in a large community, I don't think we would have the priveledge of having such incredible neighbors with such diverse backgounds.

The best comparison I like to make is that we treat each other like cousins - there's one school, one shul, one yeshiva, one girls' high school, one kollel, etc. - so we get along and respect each others differences. The rabbeim who move here to teach in our schools connect with and inspire our children.

There's a wholesomeness about the kids who grow up here. If a family moves from here to a larger community, their kids are on par with the "in town" kids. When our older sons, who are now 22 and 24, went to sleepaway camp, they were the ones (along with other boys from our community) who would get awards for their middos, davening, etc.

Out of town is not for everybody:) But, I can't imagine raising our kids anywhere else. BTW, our oldest son is married and living in Chicago. Our 22 year old is in Lakewood and our 14 year old son is in the local yeshiva.

Sorry for going on and on! I do recommend taking your time and checking out communities througout the upcoming school year. That way, you can make the best decision for your family.
Back to top

amother




DarkOrange
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 7:26 pm
I have to come here for drama and hock
Back to top

amother




Beige
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:00 pm
Matisse wrote:
It's interesting to me to read all of these responses. Moving your family is a huge decision. I recommend spending a Shabbos in the community/communities you are considering. Make your plans so that your family can go to the school(s) while they are in session.

We are BT's who became frum about 20 years ago. On our block, we have these amazing families - the Rosh Hayeshiva, frum navy psychologist, our day school menahel and two frum professional families. If we lived in a large community, I don't think we would have the priveledge of having such incredible neighbors with such diverse backgounds.

The best comparison I like to make is that we treat each other like cousins - there's one school, one shul, one yeshiva, one girls' high school, one kollel, etc. - so we get along and respect each others differences. The rabbeim who move here to teach in our schools connect with and inspire our children.

There's a wholesomeness about the kids who grow up here. If a family moves from here to a larger community, their kids are on par with the "in town" kids. When our older sons, who are now 22 and 24, went to sleepaway camp, they were the ones (along with other boys from our community) who would get awards for their middos, davening, etc.

Out of town is not for everybody:) But, I can't imagine raising our kids anywhere else. BTW, our oldest son is married and living in Chicago. Our 22 year old is in Lakewood and our 14 year old son is in the local yeshiva.

Sorry for going on and on! I do recommend taking your time and checking out communities througout the upcoming school year. That way, you can make the best decision for your family.


Well said! I totally agree
Back to top

Kiwi13




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:16 pm
dena613 wrote:
Often

Less experienced rabbonim,daas torah


What?? No way!!!
Back to top

amother




DarkCyan
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:46 pm
I do think that the shul rabbis where I live the rabbis skew young.
Back to top

amother




DarkCyan
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 11:29 am
people also go away a lot, including rabbis, especially during breaks like between school and camp. so if you need someone to pasken a bedikah shailah it can sometimes be quite challenging.
Back to top

amother




Cinnamon
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:03 pm
amother [ DarkCyan ] wrote:
people also go away a lot, including rabbis, especially during breaks like between school and camp. so if you need someone to pasken a bedikah shailah it can sometimes be quite challenging.


This is a gross over-generalization. Yes, people- even Rabbis-- go away during vacations. And Rabbis in Lakewood and Brooklyn also go on vacation when their congregants need to go to the mikvah or or need to have surgery or whatever.
But our shul Rav makes sure that there is always someone available to pasken emergency shailos. Yes, if you need to have an in-depth discussion whether you should go to law school or you should open up a tree-trimming business, that might need to wait until he comes home. But no one is left stranded up the creek without a paddle on a taharas hamishpacha shaila, or any other very important shaila. (I can't speak for other Rabbonim, but it's usually part the responsibility that comes with the position!)

Regarding Daas Torah and Rabbonim, in my tiny city, we have a Rosh Yeshiva, a shul Rov, plus a bunch of other random Talmeidi Chachomim that always have plenty of availability to speak to us and my kids about all sorts of issues--- not just halacha questions. When we lived in a large city, we had to make an appointment 3-4 weeks out to discuss non-urgent matters with our shul Rov. Here, we can usually speak to him within a day or two.
Back to top

amother




DarkCyan
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:16 pm
I found a rabbi that they said should be home but it was an onah bedikah and my period started so it was ok . I just found it challenging but maybe you are right and its just me. I do think that when people are far from family and even local people's simchas are in often done in lakewood it makes it so people are away more. I'm pretty stressed out right now and hate taharas hamishpacha so it could be just me.
Back to top

dena613




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:23 pm
I'm sorry that I offended people with my comment about rabbonim.

To clarify:

Many many if not most OOT communities have wonderful, experienced, dedicated rabbonim who have done shimush, can pasken, etc.

However, some smaller communities do not.
OP started off by mentioning communities with very small frum populations.
At times the rabbonim of very small communities are not very experienced. They may be rabbis who went through semicha programs (there are several wonderful programs that do this) and know lots of halacha and had some shimush... But when you are 30 years old (or younger!), you are very limited as a rabbi. You can pasken basic shailos, you can give inspirational speeches, but in certain ways , you are limited.
Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.
But that is what I was talking about.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:29 pm
imasinger wrote:
Here are some common challenges, in addition to the biggest one - schools.

- Fewer frum friend options for kids

- No eruv, or very small one

- In some communities, inconsistent minyanim

- Peer pressure in areas of Tznius

- Harder for kids on long YT and Shabbos days (few or no group programs)


These REALLY depend on the community. Most out of town communities are very established and organized, they aren't the "pioneer towns" of old. When I lived in NY, my son was in a class of 30 boys and had maybe 1 friend. Now that we live out of town, he has 9 boys in his class and he's friendly with most of them.

We have an eruv that encompasses the entire Jewish community. I grew up out of town and our eruv encompassed the entire Jewish area also. It's not like there are eruvim in Brooklyn and Lakewood.

I live in a small community, and there are 4 shacharis minyanim daily. My community growing up there were at least 3--unless there are like 30 families, you should have consistent minyanim.

Peer pressure in terms of tznius is an issue, but with the right friends its not as much of an issue.

I find that the out-of-town Shabbow groups are better organized because they feel the need more. When I was a head Bnos leader I was part of the head leader sessions at the Bnos Convention where it was Brooklyn/monsey leaders that were having a harder time drawing a crowd because they didnt feel the need for organized programs, they wanted Shabbos afternoon to "chill" and just "Schmooze"--granted this was 20 years ago.
Back to top

amother




Cinnamon
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:32 pm
dena613 wrote:
I'm sorry that I offended people with my comment about rabbonim.

To clarify:

Many many if not most OOT communities have wonderful, experienced, dedicated rabbonim who have done shimush, can pasken, etc.

However, some smaller communities do not.
OP started off by mentioning communities with very small frum populations.
At times the rabbonim of very small communities are not very experienced. They may be rabbis who went through semicha programs (there are several wonderful programs that do this) and know lots of halacha and had some shimush... But when you are 30 years old (or younger!), you are very limited as a rabbi. You can pasken basic shailos, you can give inspirational speeches, but in certain ways , you are limited.
Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.
But that is what I was talking about.



I definetly was NOT "offended"-- I just find that there are A LOT of generalizations on these types of threads. And yes, in some places, especially in an out town community, the shul Rabbi might be very young without a lot of experience. That definetly wouldn't work for my family, but it's not a given in all places. If he is a young inexperienced Rov hopefully, he has a very strong mentor. I know that in my city, the previous Rav was travelling to Lakewood frequently (2-3 times per month for 2-3 days) to do shimush with a very expereinced respected shul Rov there (this is before my time).
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 12:36 pm
Thanks, can you explain more what is meant by "peer pressure in terms of tznius"?
Back to top

miami85




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 1:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks, can you explain more what is meant by "peer pressure in terms of tznius"?


If you have a more modern community, there can be more pressure to wear short sleeves, short skirts/slits and even pants.

Where I grew up the girls from the kollel families tended to be a chevra and they wore their more tznius clothes (I tended to hang out with the kollel girls), but the rest of the class tended to be more relaxed with tznius. But depends on the community. Where I live now there tends to be more of a frum vibe despite living out of town and far from lakewood, so my daughter tends to be more "frum" than I was at her age.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 3 of 4 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Moving/ Relocating

Related Topics Replies Last Post
What to look for in regard to chinuch when moving OOT?
by amother
5 Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:02 pm View last post
Buying wool or linen items OOT
by amother
3 Tue, Jun 21 2022, 10:07 am View last post
Falls-pros and cons 6 Mon, Jun 20 2022, 5:03 pm View last post
[ Poll ] How to stop living paycheck to paycheck
by amother
14 Fri, Jun 10 2022, 3:02 pm View last post
Anyone read about the sweating in Ami Living?
by amother
12 Wed, Jun 08 2022, 2:13 am View last post